The Mideast Peace Process ...

[dogtag]

What peace process ? You mean the one
that's been going on since 1948 ?
Oh, that one.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...y-to-jerusalem

[m1ashooter]

The Arabs are saying the peace process is in jeopardy if we move our embassy to Jerusalem. What peace process are they talking about?

[dryheat]

What peace process? That's the first thing I thought. If it's a process, it's glacial.

[S.A. Boggs]

If the Jew's state this is their capital then this is where we need to place our embassy. In 1948 Truman recognized the Jewish state and the Arabs didn't like it so little has changed since then. The total destruction of Israel is "their" desire and that is something that is not going to happen.
Sam

[bruce]

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem will not improve anything for anyone. It's one of those emotional things that people do ... meaningless and of no productive value for the US. None of the parties i the middle east are friends of this nation. Not the arab nation. Not Israel ... which has the blood of US Navy men on its hands as well as having paid spies to damage our nation in their own frantic desire to get any weapons information they could get. The arabs will do whatever they do ... and when it harms the US, it will not matter to them. The Isralie's will do whatever they do ... and when it harms the US, it will not matter to them. Not one little bit.

The US should step back and let the dogs fight. It will not matter who wins. Let the dogs fight. Sooner or later, the Israelis and the arabs will have to work out some sort of an arrangement b/c neither one of them has the resources necessary to achieve a military victory that they can sustain. The US has nothing to gain by throwing more money much less men down that rats hole.

For those who press the Old Testament promise perspective, I have some sympathy. However, I do not find it persuasive. Israel of today is merely a secular state which tolerates Jews who follow the faith of Abraham. The modern day state of Israel has no commitment to that faith. It is no different than the arab states of that region, a mere political entity that will do anything to anyone, that will turn its back on loyal friends, whatever as long as its political interests are served. Zionism as it is expressed in the modern day nation state of Israel is no different than the Palestinians and their own political interests. Neither is the friend of the US except only as it pays off in cash, technology... or stolen national security secrets they gladly take from the spies they pay to attack our nation. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[RED]

Not the arab nation. Not Israel ... It will not matter who wins.

'

Those two statements show a complete lack of understanding of the Middle East. In the first place Arabs are not the problem. The problem is with the Muslims. There are millions of Arabs that are Christian's. As a matter of fact some of the biggest problem countries in the Middle East are not Arabic, including, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

And so you think it it doesn't matter who wins... That is dangerously cockeyed. If the Muslims win, your grandchildren will be Muslims and shout Allah Akbar as they behead grandpa.

[Sandpebble]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]The US should step back and let the dogs fight. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem will not improve anything for anyone. It's one of those emotional things that people do ... meaningless and of no productive value for the US. None of the parties i the middle east are friends of this nation. Not the arab nation. Not Israel ... which has the blood of US Navy men on its hands as well as having paid spies to damage our nation in their own frantic desire to get any weapons information they could get. The arabs will do whatever they do ... and when it harms the US, it will not matter to them. The Isralie's will do whatever they do ... and when it harms the US, it will not matter to them. Not one little bit.

The US should step back and let the dogs fight.[/FONT]

You are right on the money on that one Bruce...... ask my friend who served on the USS Liberty .

All our problems in the Middle East evolved from Israels problems.... which weren't ours.

Reds comment above about our Grandchildren being muslim if Israel loses is rather reminiscent of our McCarthy fear of Comminism that was used as an excuse to lose 58,000 in Vietnam .....

so that our Grandchildren wouldn't be Communist

[togor]

The problem with letting the dogs fight is that destruction is a lot easier to produce and ship around the world in colossal amounts than it ever was before. Picture the Saudis and Iranians getting into a nuclear exchange....or even a conventional exchange that wrecks each other's oil output. Like it or not that part of the world still produces a lot of petroleum, and you can bet that neither the Trump Adminstration or US petroleum producers will shield the US consumer from a worldwide spike. They'll tell the folks in the cities to go suck it while the oil patch booms and the "national emergency" causes us to abandon even more pollution laws. Come to think of it, maybe that's the plan. This would not be the first time the GOP put petroleum at the centerpiece of their foreign policy. Maybe Bruce ought to invest some of his church's funds in Exxon Mobil while the getting is good. They'll thank him later (maybe).

[bruce]

So ... the US is to invest more money and men in the future of Israel, so that Israel can have a nice economy, etc. subsidized by the US taxpayer. Got it. That makes a whole lot of sense. They bomb and strafe our seamen in international waters ... and nothing happens. They fund spies to get information on our equipment, etc., the spy gets caught and does some serious federal time. Israel never says ... nothing. Again, the US taxpayer takes it on the chin for Israel.

As to dogs and destruction ... let them go to it. If one or the other gets stupid and pushing the mushroom button ... it'll be one or the other or both getting cooked. It won't be our servicemen and our equipment getting cooked.

No administration will ever act to shield Americans from the economic consequences of not getting into a war. Neither will any administration ever act to protect Americans from the consequences of third party stupidity ... whether it's Israel and one or more of the arab nations exchanging nuclear greeting or whatever.

As to investing church money, those sort of decisions are above my pay grade. Sincerely. bruce.

[S.A. Boggs]

Regardless of what happens from either side it will affect the U.S. in some way. To look forward one has to look back and see where we have been. I can understand the Jew's paranoia as they have only themselves to look for help, not the world. Every and I mean every nation spies on each other that is not new. The Liberty was a U.S. spy ship that some evidence states was supplying info to the Egyptian military, with LBJ at the helm that was possible. Personally I feel that the American Government needs to bring troop and money home, take care of what is here. Our embassy needs to be in any nation's capital as we expect the same. The Jew's want to live without the expectation of being murdered, is that so wrong?
Sam

[bruce]

Re: Expectation. The Isralie's have every reason to be cautious, etc. given the nations that surround them. From time to time they have done things that in retrospect were simply unsupportable. I cannot see any reason to excuse such moves simply because such stupid acts were done by Isralie's and not one of the various opposition groups. The only people who even remotely pretend that the USS Liberty was not in international waters are the Israelie's. Period. The was no excuse for that attack. No excuse at all. Period. There was no excuse for Israel to steal US information via a spy. The US was giving Israel every type of support imaginable from military hardware, etc., to propping their economy up. Without the US, Israel would have been a greasy spot on the map courtesy of the surrounding hostile nations armed by the former now dead and gone ussr. There was no excuse for Israel to so treat the US. None at all. Our nation took the lead in recognizing and supporting Israel. Our nation stood by Israel when no other nation in the world would give them the time of day.

What does Israel now want? Given their history as I've seen it ... they are no different than any other nation state in the area. They want whatever they can get their hands on. It has nothing to do with any sort of reference to their forefathers faith in God, covenant promises, etc. The modern day state of Israel is not but a secular nation state. That is all. It is lead by politicians who are no different that those found in Washington, loyal to the highest bidder. The days of Mosha Dyan, etc. are over. If they want to live without being constantly at risk, they will have to come to terms with the people who surround them. Israel is not going to politely go away. That is the bone that sticks in the throat of old europe and the UN. The Palestinian people are not going to go away. That is the bone that sticks in the throat of the Israelis. They will at some point have to come to some agreement that the majority on each side can accept. They will then all have to deal with the dead-enders on each side that will only accept their own apocalyptic vision for the area. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[S.A. Boggs]

Re: Expectation. The Isralie's have every reason to be cautious, etc. given the nations that surround them. From time to time they have done things that in retrospect were simply unsupportable. I cannot see any reason to excuse such moves simply because such stupid acts were done by Isralie's and not one of the various opposition groups. The only people who even remotely pretend that the USS Liberty was not in international waters are the Israelie's. Period. The was no excuse for that attack. No excuse at all. Period. There was no excuse for Israel to steal US information via a spy. The US was giving Israel every type of support imaginable from military hardware, etc., to propping their economy up. Without the US, Israel would have been a greasy spot on the map courtesy of the surrounding hostile nations armed by the former now dead and gone ussr. There was no excuse for Israel to so treat the US. None at all. Our nation took the lead in recognizing and supporting Israel. Our nation stood by Israel when no other nation in the world would give them the time of day.

What does Israel now want? Given their history as I've seen it ... they are no different than any other nation state in the area. They want whatever they can get their hands on. It has nothing to do with any sort of reference to their forefathers faith in God, covenant promises, etc. The modern day state of Israel is not but a secular nation state. That is all. It is lead by politicians who are no different that those found in Washington, loyal to the highest bidder. The days of Mosha Dyan, etc. are over. If they want to live without being constantly at risk, they will have to come to terms with the people who surround them. Israel is not going to politely go away. That is the bone that sticks in the throat of old europe and the UN. The Palestinian people are not going to go away. That is the bone that sticks in the throat of the Israelis. They will at some point have to come to some agreement that the majority on each side can accept. They will then all have to deal with the dead-enders on each side that will only accept their own apocalyptic vision for the area. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

The question is who will give in, the answer is no one. The radicals of both sides will not allow this so the fingers will stay on the provirable trigger and continue to squeeze. Paranoia is a bad thing up to a point and this is what the Jewish state has. Trump is implementing a 1995 law rather then kick the can down the road. The IDF will handle whatever reaction will be forthcoming and not gently.
Sam

[togor]

At least one Palestinian leader is throwing in the towel on a 2 state solution, saying that the area should be one state with Palestinians having equal rights under the law. If more join him (unlikely given their self-defeating nature) then Israel has a huge problem on their hands. At that point they become another South Africa practicing Apartheid.

[S.A. Boggs]

At least one Palestinian leader is throwing in the towel on a 2 state solution, saying that the area should be one state with Palestinians having equal rights under the law. If more join him (unlikely given their self-defeating nature) then Israel has a huge problem on their hands. At that point they become another South Africa practicing Apartheid.

Please explain your statement more.
Sam

[togor]

Please explain your statement more.
Sam

Saeb Erakat, a Palestinian diplomat, says he doesn't see a viable 2 state solution. So he'll focus on securing full and equal rights for Palestinians in an enlarged Israel.

Other Palestinian leaders disagree. But look at the current dynamic. The Zionists keep plucking the choicest locations, evicting the locals, and putting up settlements that are underwritten by the government.

Palestinians would have more rights as Israeli citizens, unless Israel makes them officially second class citizens, like what happened in South Africa. Israel can't make the Palestinians full and equal citizens without sacrificing the Jewish nature of the Israeli State, and can't practice Apartheid without being really isolated from the world, including eventually the US.

Years ago Tom Clancy wrote a book called The Sum of All Fears, in which Palestinians had decided to adopt MLK style non-violent protest techniques. Imagine if that came true in real life! . It's fair to say that Palestinians can be their own worst enemy, but Jews are not Christians, and their attitude towards the residents of the West bank and Gaza is very hard.

Palestinians asking for full and equal standing in a single Israeli State is a brilliant strategic move. This of course makes it unlikely that enough of them would do it. Israel naturally wants to keep the 2 state fiction alive indefinitely, and Napoleon teaches us to not do what your opponent wants you to do. Israel has had the benefit of the Palestinians foolishly doing what Israel wants. Therefore, if the Palestinians were to start to wise up on this point, then it wouldn't surprise me to see some mysterious deaths among Palestinian advocates of a single state just to put things back in order.