The Value Of Calling "A xxxx Hole" A xxxx Hole

[dryheat]

-and some nations, such as Poland, is saying enough!-

And Germans are moving to Austria.

[blackhawknj]

Many of these countries-Haiti, the Dominican Republic, e.g.-have been independent for CENTURIES, yet they have had kleptocratic governments-the Duvaliers, Trujillo-e.g. which were basically criminal organizations that managed to take over an entire country. No wonder people want to leave.
OK, my paternal grandfather and great-grandfather arrived here from Germany in 1881. Why did they leave ? Repressive government under Bismarck, who felt that emigration was a good way of getting ride of troublemakers. Germans were seen as preferred immigrants-hard working, sober, industrious-literate.

[togor]

Half the H1Bs go to Indians hired to work in tech. Large trained pool of English speakers. We are told by industry that if not for the H1Bs, those jobs go to India instead of being in America. CA, TX, NJ and NY are the top 4 H1B states.

I'd very much like to see immigration reform. But is the government ready to get into this fight on the side of (domestic) labor instead of business? I have my doubts. For example, the meatpacking industry uses Hispanics in great supply. Especially in poultry. Would a Trump led government give a nod to organized labor getting in there to give US workers better wages and protections? I think the reason many jobs go to illegals in the first place is because employers squeeze so hard that the natives prefer to find something else to do. Business needs to be part of the solution in my opinion.

[clintonhater]

Many of these countries-Haiti, the Dominican Republic, e.g.-have been independent for CENTURIES...

All the Spanish colonies in S. America had become independent republics by the early 1820s. All these countries were rich in natural resources compared to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore. But look at the difference in what the Asians did with what they had to work with, compared to the Latin Americans.

[clintonhater]

For example, the meatpacking industry uses Hispanics in great supply. Especially in poultry. Would a Trump led government give a nod to organized labor getting in there to give US workers better wages and protections?

Organized labor needs no nod or other cooperation from Trump to organize these workers--if they want to be organized. This work is so unpleasant I doubt wages could be raised high enough to lure US citizens, but it's worth trying; meat in this country is so cheap, wages could well be raised. Otherwise, register the foreign workers, give them Green Cards, but with the requirement that they GO HOME when they quit work. If they live prudently while working here, they can retire to a good life in their own countries.

[Jiminvirginia]

Oddly it has been the Brits who have dorked up a good chunk of the world.

[leftyo]

Half the H1Bs go to Indians hired to work in tech. Large trained pool of English speakers. We are told by industry that if not for the H1Bs, those jobs go to India instead of being in America. CA, TX, NJ and NY are the top 4 H1B states.

I'd very much like to see immigration reform. But is the government ready to get into this fight on the side of (domestic) labor instead of business? I have my doubts. For example, the meatpacking industry uses Hispanics in great supply. Especially in poultry. Would a Trump led government give a nod to organized labor getting in there to give US workers better wages and protections? I think the reason many jobs go to illegals in the first place is because employers squeeze so hard that the natives prefer to find something else to do. Business needs to be part of the solution in my opinion.

unions are 100% formed by the worker for the worker, the gvmnt has not 1 damned word to say about it. unions suck, but thats not the gvmnt's doings.

[dogtag]

Oddly it has been the Brits who have dorked up a good chunk of the world.

The Brits pulled these people out of the dark age by giving them
Railroads, highways, order, schools and a recognized currency, etc etc.
When they were given independence, some sank back into the dark age.
There's just no helping some people, because if they don't learn what is
being taught then they remain as dumb as they were originally.

[Jiminvirginia]

And this is the crux of the problem. The Brits thought these countries should be "like them" ignoring tribal boundaries, regional differences, etc. That and they were really just interested in making a buck, not truly helping the country. Agree they did some good stuff but the real motive was power and profit.

[dogtag]

And this is the crux of the problem. The Brits thought these countries should be "like them" ignoring tribal boundaries, regional differences, etc. That and they were really just interested in making a buck, not truly helping the country. Agree they did some good stuff but the real motive was power and profit.

Not helping the Country ?
The reason was resources in return for which they gave them civilization.
Replaced their loincloths with blue jeans.

[togor]

DT, I know you love the old country but Jim has a lot of case study facts on his side. Just to give 4:

1. Balfour Declaration

2. Iraq (borders)

3. India/Pakistan/Bangladesh

4. Ulster

Really gotta go with Jim on this one. Not even close.

- - - Updated - - -

unions are 100% formed by the worker for the worker, the gvmnt has not 1 damned word to say about it. unions suck, but thats not the gvmnt's doings.

POTUS appoints the members of the NLRB which can help or hurt one side or the other in a organizing dispute. My personal feelings towards unions run towards the negative but I think organized labor has a place even today. Obama's NLRB people ran towards unions, Trump's toward business. Trump is no friend of organized labor.

[clintonhater]

No where in tribal Africa were Western concepts of impartial justice, individual rights, & the rule of law recognized; most tribal kings & chiefs exercised absolute powers of life & death over their subjects. Yes, the colonial powers exploited the native population for profit, but at the same time provided them with models of civilized governance--which, they have proven themselves unable to absorb. If you haven't taken note of what's happened to S. Africa after white-rule ended, you really have no right to an opinion on the subject.

[dryheat]

White rule was a blip. Africa finds it's denominator.

[Jiminvirginia]

When I was on one of my ships I found a list of wisdom from a previous chief engineer, a senior officer. One of the things he said was dont waste time trying to "fix" mediocre performers and trouble makers. This kind of surprised me because it flew in the face of Naval Doctrine at the time. But he was right. We can spend huge amounts of resources, including lives, trying to fix something that cant be fixed or more impotantly doesnt want to be. This applies to the "sxxxhole" countries. You have to choose these battles very carefully.
And this is why some of these countries revert to the old way when they are back in charge - they never wanted to be "fixed".

[S.A. Boggs]

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? First the light bulb has to want to change. Why are we "nation building" in Afghanistan? The British, Russian and now the American's are dong the same mistakes. This is the classic definition of crazy, we have spent a great deal of money and more importantly lives for what? When we finally pull out what will have changed? We have to understand that an idea is being fought, not a people. Containment of some type is our best hope and I have no idea how to manage that. Russia, Europe has as much to lose as we do in the America's, yet we have people here who want the US to lose. Working with anti-socials there is no fix, regardless of what counselors say. Throwing money at a problem often won't amend the problem, only make the thrower less wealthy. Strange as it may seem, some people are only happy when there is misery/problems in their lives. My late mother in law thrived on misery and I gave up along time ago of trying to please her. A mindset is near impossible to change and that is what is often faced.
Sam