The future of NAFTA

[Allen]

Trump brought up NAFTA many times during his campaigning. It has always been slap in the face for America and Trump wants to even the scales. It seems that making it an advantage to America is out of the question.

Canada is part of the NAFTA conspiracy as well as Mexico. About 6 months ago Mexico stated that they didn't care what Trump wanted in regards to adjusting NAFTA. If it didn't favor Mexico they would just bypass the U.S. and trade with Canada. Now it is Canada that is stating that if NAFTA doesn't favor them that they too want no part of it.

I wonder if Trump planned this where he would still have leverage and Mexico will have no choice but to trade to new NAFTA rules if/since they can't fall back on Canada.

I still believe that Mexico will pay for the wall eventually (as they should) through NAFTA's new rules or complete elimination.

From Seeking Alpha Ltd. site.

"Canada is willing to walk away from NAFTA if the U.S. proposes a bad deal. We will not be pushed around," Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said at a town hall event in Nanaimo, British Columbia. "Canceling it would be extremely harmful and disruptive to people in the U.S.... We are going to keep negotiating in good faith, [but] we are not going to take any old deal."

[togor]

Show me where Trump has planned anything on this scale.

[leftyo]

screw canada and mexico, the US has been getting the short end of the stick for far too long on the NAFTA deal. if they cant trade fairly with us, then they can play tiddlywinks with each other.

[bruce]

In what way is nafta unfair to the US? Sincerely. bruce.

[togor]

Good question, Bruce.

[Vern Humphrey]

From https://www.thebalance.com/nafta-pros-and-cons-3970481

Cons
NAFTA also had six disadvantages.

First, it led to the loss of 500,000-750,000 U.S. jobs. Most were in the manufacturing industry in California, New York, Michigan and Texas. Companies in some industries moved to Mexico because labor was cheap. These industries were automotive, textile, computer and electrical appliance.

Second, job migration suppressed wages. Companies threatened to move to Mexico to keep workers from joining unions. Without the unions, workers could not bargain for better wages. This strategy was so successful that it became standard operating procedure. Between 1993 and 1995, half of all companies used it. By 1999, that rate had grown to 65 percent.

Third, NAFTA put Mexican farmers out of business. It allowed U.S. government-subsidized farm products into Mexico. Local farmers could not compete with the artificially low prices. As a result, 1.3 million farmers were put out of business, according to the Economic Policy Institute. It forced unemployed farmers to cross the border illegally to find work. In 1995, there were 2.9 million Mexicans living in the United States illegally. It increased to 4.5 million in 2000, probably due to NAFTA. The recession drove that figure to 6.9 million in 2007. In 2014, it fell to 5.8 million, roughly double where it was before NAFTA.

Fourth, as Mexicans lost their farms, they went to work in substandard conditions in the maquiladora program. Maquiladora is where United States-owned companies employ Mexican workers near the border. They cheaply assemble products for export back into the United States. The program grew to employ 30 percent of Mexico's labor force.

Fifth, U.S. companies degraded the Mexican environment to keep costs low. Mexico agribusiness used more fertilizers and other chemicals. The result was $36 billion more per year in pollution. Rural farmers were forced into marginal land to stay in business. They cut down 630,000 hectares of forests per year.

Sixth, NAFTA allowed Mexican trucks access into the United States. Mexican trucks are not held to the same safety standards as American trucks. Congress never allowed this provision to go into effect.

[Allen]

Thanks Vern. I thought the question was self explanatory. Even Ross Perot talked about it while campaigning long ago. He referred to it as that "great sucking sound" sucking all the jobs into Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_sucking_sound

In short, it was an excuse to NOT enforce illegal immigration laws. Basically Bush (old) and Clinton said we'll send you all the jobs you need instead of your people coming here.

[bruce]

Re: Cons. Thank you for a very clear response to my question. Sincerely. bruce.

[togor]

The thing is, pros can be written against some of those cons. For example, new markets for yellow corn farmers. Manufacturing plants bring wages to Mexico, and reduce prices for American buyers. Far more people buy cars than make them.

So pros versus cons. Someone want to take an honest stab at that?

[RED]

new markets for yellow corn farmers..

Here you go again... Your post reveals you are a racist "Yellow corn farmers..." obviously you are referring to yellow skinned Asians. The plant called yellow corn is a grain while "white," or sweet, corn is labeled a vegetable. Humans consume both varieties.. Hominy is made from field corn by using a lye solution to remove the outer layer of skin.

Tortillas and cornbread are made from yellow corn ground in different ways... new markets for importing yellow corn are all in So. America... Mexico, Guatemala, etc. Mexico should be exporting corn... but their government is run by folks like togor and the Stooges.

[dryheat]

That was pretty good Red, vague as it was and off topic. But who stays on topic anyway?

[togor]

Here you go again... Your post reveals you are a racist "Yellow corn farmers..." obviously you are referring to yellow skinned Asians. The plant called yellow corn is a grain while "white," or sweet, corn is labeled a vegetable. Humans consume both varieties.. Hominy is made from field corn by using a lye solution to remove the outer layer of skin.

Tortillas and cornbread are made from yellow corn ground in different ways... new markets for importing yellow corn are all in So. America... Mexico, Guatemala, etc. Mexico should be exporting corn... but their government is run by folks like togor and the Stooges.

Are you really that f*cking ignorant? Yes you are. Yellow corn is what we largely grow for animal feed and Ethanol, and largely what we send to Mexico for use as animal feed there. But color misses the point (but of course how easy of you to get sidetracked by a irrelevant detail). The point is, a 9mmt market for American corn (almost all yellow) under NAFTA is an important one.

[S.A. Boggs]

You know "free" is expensive for someone. Trade is necessary for an economy to thrive IF the economy can afford it. Canadians and Americans are similar in concepts because of our shared English heritage. Still Canada wants to best for their "trade" as does the United States. Mexico is different, not just due to language but to culture and outlook on life as well. The Canadian-United States is on parallel ladders, Mexico is on a lower rung still trying to climb. If Canada-U.S. require Mexican transportation/drivers to meet our requirements can they afford to? American companies went to Mexico to produce at lower wages and increase their profits. To protect companies that stayed here with the jobs would it not be wise to place tariffs to equal out the field? I trade with other's to get what I want/need, I just don't do it stupidly.
Sam

[SysAd]

I hope he just walks away from NAFTA. The Pacific Northwest was full of thriving little lumber towns before NAFTA allowed Canadian lumber, subsidized by their government, to drive them out of business. My little town was busy place with seven mills when I moved here 25 years ago. Only one is left and supporting businesses have gone under too. The loss of tax base leaves streets full of potholes and a terrible water system. NAFTA was a horrible deal for the U.S. and dumping it would be good.

[steelap]

Oh, man! SysAd, I'm disappointed.

When i saw you had posted to this thread I was sure that you were going to say you had banned togor for his language in Post 12 (don't edit it now, togor!).

After all, RED was banned for ad hominem attacks....