A legal, not political question

[S.A. Boggs]

Please, no political posturing on this question. Since the Russians are being investigated for "meddling" in our election shouldn't we also investigate the former President for the same offense? In news reports of several years ago, it was reported that President Obama directed the State Department to "invest" in the opposition party of the current leader. To show the world that the U.S. is a nation of laws, not people, should not the same litmus test be applied. Should another special prosecutor with no ties to the FBI or State Department be appointed as well. For our Canadian friends, how would you feel if this was done against your Great Nation? AGAIN I AM STATING I DO NOT WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A POLITICAL ARGUMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sam

[milboltnut]

I'm still lost in what the Russians have to do with an election here.... other than espionage.

Forget about it

[togor]

Well it's a question of laws. Does Congress tie the hands of the State Department as regards to who they talk to/support among competing factions in foreign countries? Afghanistan and Iraq today!

The other aspect is whether the engagement is in the open or covert. I may think it odd if an informative ad ran during the campaign followed by "paid for by the government of France", but if it was sober and issues-oriented to US-French relations and not incendiary towards a political candidate or faction then it's hard to accuse the French of underhanded meddling. Their argument is out in the open.

For me personally, covert intrusion into the election processes of another country, especially when they are making a serious attempt at fair elections, should be illegal by our laws both ways.

As to the specific incident you have in mind, I don't know the details. But now I am told Iran is on our list of countries where we want to see regime change. That's how they got the Shah in the first place so my view there is that we should set limits on what we do there with covert stuff. The Persians had a civilization while our ancestors were digging for grubs in the forests of Europe. Ask a Persian and he'll tell you they are very conscious of this fact. One can state a preference but do it in the open and let the Persians choose.

[milboltnut]

nobody is held accountable anymore.... nobody is prosecuted.. so who cares anymore. Nothing gets done. The way things were will never be... too many freebees for the average person to be effected by what these people do in Washington. Follow?

You sound like you should run for congress Togor....like that would make a difference.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Regarding the Canadian reaction I would point out that our government has just this week introduced legislation in Parliament to ban foreign financial input to the Canadian electoral process. It is pretty certain that in the last election foreign entities did use various subterfuges to provide such funds. The only criticism that I have read about the proposed legislation is that there may still be a few loopholes that have to be plugged.

[Allen]

I think it is nothing but a political argument but I won't go any further than that. The DOJ should be involved but isn't. If Russia is guilty then obama is guilty period.

As we speak George Soros is writing numerous 6 figure checks in Florida to swing the mid term elections his way. Legal? I thought there were $ limits from donors.

[S.A. Boggs]

Well it's a question of laws. Does Congress tie the hands of the State Department as regards to who they talk to/support among competing factions in foreign countries? Afghanistan and Iraq today!

The other aspect is whether the engagement is in the open or covert. I may think it odd if an informative ad ran during the campaign followed by "paid for by the government of France", but if it was sober and issues-oriented to US-French relations and not incendiary towards a political candidate or faction then it's hard to accuse the French of underhanded meddling. Their argument is out in the open.

For me personally, covert intrusion into the election processes of another country, especially when they are making a serious attempt at fair elections, should be illegal by our laws both ways.

As to the specific incident you have in mind, I don't know the details. But now I am told Iran is on our list of countries where we want to see regime change. That's how they got the Shah in the first place so my view there is that we should set limits on what we do there with covert stuff. The Persians had a civilization while our ancestors were digging for grubs in the forests of Europe. Ask a Persian and he'll tell you they are very conscious of this fact. One can state a preference but do it in the open and let the Persians choose.

You have come up with many points that need to be considered. Just who is an "enemy" anymore? When can our government seek to "influence" others? Was the U.S. wrong in trying to stop the U.S.S.R. with the spread of communism? By supporting are we interfering? Pardon the pun, does the U.S. have a Prime Directive or should we? Uncle Ho was an admirer of our nation and asked for our help in his nation against a colonial power France. We supported France and look how it turned out. Now Viet Nam wants our help as a buffer against the Chinese and we are working peacefully with them, American presence is strong in this Asian nation. Personally I have mixed feelings on this as to what the right thing is. Now to our Canadian friend, please stop resorting with your cold waves to influence our weather in winter! Do we need to pass weather laws to prevent this intrusion? We could retaliate by sending waves of heat from our desert south west in January if we have to!
Sam

[togor]

I tried to honor your request Sam with my reply and not stack an argument one way or the other with respect to US political factions.

[milboltnut]

S.A. Boggs

You have come up with many points that need to be considered. Just who is an "enemy" anymore? When can our government seek to "influence" others? Was the U.S. wrong in trying to stop the U.S.S.R. with the spread of communism? By supporting are we interfering? Pardon the pun, does the U.S. have a Prime Directive or should we? Uncle Ho was an admirer of our nation and asked for our help in his nation against a colonial power France. We supported France and look how it turned out. Now Viet Nam wants our help as a buffer against the Chinese and we are working peacefully with them, American presence is strong in this Asian nation. Personally I have mixed feelings on this as to what the right thing is. Now to our Canadian friend, please stop resorting with your cold waves to influence our weather in winter! Do we need to pass weather laws to prevent this intrusion? We could retaliate by sending waves of heat from our desert south west in January if we have to!
Sam

When can our government seek to "influence" others?

most of the world wants nothing to do with us, really.

Was the U.S. wrong in trying to stop the U.S.S.R. with the spread of communism?

you really don't know ???

By supporting are we interfering?

What??

does the U.S. have a Prime Directive or should we?

We aren't heard enough.... not as much representation as we should have.

We the people should leave others alone unless it threatens us as a nation.

[S.A. Boggs]

I tried to honor your request Sam with my reply and not stack an argument one way or the other with respect to US political factions.

I have no problem with politics-left-center-right- who to say is correct? Problem is when it gets snide or mean then the problem surfaces. Thank you for honoring my request.
Sam

[milboltnut]

when you wake up in the morning and decide what to eat for breakfast, what clothes to wear and go to work, how to do your job... and whether your kid is ready for a test at school, I guess that's all that matters..

[togor]

How's that?

[milboltnut]

that all this political mess doesn't matter...and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, other than poking holes in the air with your finger.

[togor]

that all this political mess doesn't matter...and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, other than poking holes in the air with your finger.

Good luck getting Red to think that politics don't matter. He pours it on his cornflakes in the morning and chills his whiskey with it in the evening.

[S.A. Boggs]

Good luck getting Red to think that politics don't matter. He pours it on his cornflakes in the morning and chills his whiskey with it in the evening.

Some get over emotional which is understandable to a degree. Problem arises when it get's angry-personal to insulting. Togor and I have somewhat of a different look @ our life, to disagree logical without emotion is desirable for any conversation to be productive. I detest vulgarism as why resort to gutter language to strongly emphasize a point? One of my favorite scenes is in The Maltase Falcon where the Falcon is discovered to be a phony. Colorful, descriptive, strong emphasis on emotion. Try this scene today the air would be blue with non-colorful obscene language.
Sam