Early Reports Not Encouraging (To Me)

[togor]

Unfolding along the lines that I thought it might. Let's see what kind of pushback there is. But a defense force that doesn't train is one that doesn't fight. NK's call it provocative? Too effing bad.

Trump also expressed a desire to eventually remove the thousands of American stationed on the Korean peninsula, another point of contention for North Korea.

"I want to get our soldiers out," he said, but noted "that’s not part of the equation right now."

The remarks quickly incensed some military experts and foreign policy hawks who worried Trump was promoting Pyongyang talking points and moving too quickly to give up what they perceive as stabilizing forces in the region.

But Trump argued that the joint military exercises with South Korea were "very provocative" and cost "a tremendous amount of money," complaining that Seoul doesn't foot enough of the bill. And he mentioned that the exercises require U.S. bombers to fly in six-and-a-half hours from Guam, where they are stationed.

[m1ashooter]

The 4 points they talked about are doable. They say joint exercises are to stop. We can still do our own as can the ROKs. In my reality which might be wrong the amount of US ground and air power in the country are not enough to stop a determined North Korean force if they come south and we don't have the logistic tail to quickly move ground forces from the states with their equipment.

I think the execution of cooperation in the 4th point will be a key indicator if things will really change. Bringing home our dead that we have some clue where they are should be easy and if the North actually lets us search for others without major road blocks will tell us a lot.

[Mark in Ottawa]

I think that Mr Trump just got totally outmanoevered by Kim. I have long suspected that his real long term goal is to get US troops out of South Korea since they act as both a tripwire and as a symbol that the US will support South Korea in the event of an invasion. Kim has one of the largest armies in the world and does not need nuclear weapons to destroy the South. There are known to be many thousands of artillery pieces and rockets along the DMZ and they could destroy Seoul in a couple of hours. From his point of view, giving up badly functioning nucs in exchange for the removal of US troops (and no doubt a lot of money) is a winning situation. In a couple of years he will foment a crisis and invade the South, knowing that the US may not have the will to intervene from afar and will not have the logistic capability to do so quickly. On thinking about it, I now suspect that all of his bellicosity over the last couple of years may have been nothing but a strategic move to achieve this end. (I hope that I am wrong but I don't think so)

[S.A. Boggs]

The MSM will "report" this as a defeat for the U.S., they cannot do otherwise due to the upcoming elections. Without the NET and Fox "they" could get away with it as "they" controlled the message. The devil will be in the details as to what each side wants and is willing NOT TO DO. People are often heard stating that they are willing to do anything, that is not truthful. Kim needs something from US and this is scaring our real adversary China. Nam, a former foe, is also weary of China and see's the US as a buffer, perhaps Kim see's this as well. If Kim can be brought into the US orbit, normalize as much as possible positive relationship with ROK then so much the better. Almost anything is an improvement over where the NK and the US stood 6 months ago. Kim is giving up more then we are at this point, I am optimistic with one thing...TRUST BUT VERIFY. One thing about the President, he is doing what he promised the American People instead of just hollow words as most politicians. I always felt the best way to win a fight is not to get into one. What's that old 1960's radical saying, "Give Peace a Chance!"
Sam

[dogtag]

No doubt any Trump success will disappoint togor

[togor]

Sam's Woodstock vibe notwithstanding, I think Mark is closer to the X.

“They have great beaches. You see that whenever they are exploding the cannons in the ocean. I said, ‘Look at that view, that would make a great condo.’ I explained it. I said, ‘Instead of doing that, you could have the best hotels in the world. Think of it from the real estate perspective.’ ”

Condos? Sheesh.

[togor]

No doubt any Trump success will disappoint togor

Actually no DT. But I'm not a thrall eager to sign on to calling some junk glass a diamond just because I'm into The Donald. Show me the balance sheet. Show me what we get in exchange for no longer doing join training exercises with ROK. Annual exercises replace the training lost to ongoing personnel rotations. Ending them reduces readiness. They could have installed hotlines to cool NK tensions during the exercises. Plenty of Korean speakers in the ROK.

Imagine Reagan telling NATO we weren't going to train because he, Ronald Reagan, had looked into Mr. Gorbachev's soul.

By everything you used to hold dear, DT, I am right. I say "used to" because who knows anymore.

[S.A. Boggs]

We don't have enough troops, really only a token force. Our real force is our air assets with the use of tactical nuclear from our subs. ROK is tough and not to be underestimated as they have proven their fighting ability time and time again. Our son trained with two "hard core" groups of soldiers and they were the ROK Army and former Russian Spestnaz. You fight to gain something, why would Kim attack knowing full well what our forces can do to his country. By giving up Kim has more materialistic things to get then what warfare can bring him. Trump is not a pushover as many American Presidents have been of both political parties, perhaps this is why Kim is now at the table. Calm talking and dealing can bring a more stable world, the alternative is armed conflict, only time will tell where this conversation can lead to. After all, who would have thought that the Iron Curtain would fall and American troops would be in Poland with the Poles blessing. I understand that Poland is willing to build a base for US troops to be stationed there.
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

Well Togor, he met him. This is a political and geographical victory for the NORKs (China, always China), and very little for us.

[S.A. Boggs]

Well Togor, he met him. This is a political and geographical victory for the NORKs (China, always China), and very little for us.

But from your geopolitical standpoint it is better for US to have a battle fleet parked off the Korean coast with B-52's and other air assets coming in from Guam? That would make no sense at all to anyone except someone who wants conflict. Having many years of de-escalation work the President is doing the right thing. One would think that the left wants a conflict with American service people dying just to say, "We told you so, now put us back in power to bring peace and prosperity under the Democratic Banner of the Jackass!" The US has given up nothing except a little time with war games, to cut back on the possibility of REAL WAR isn't this lost time worth it? The US has a chance at peace, the left is willing to gamble with American Service Personal lives...kinda reminds you of Obama and Libya doesn't it?
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

Not weeding through all that straw...

Norks are a proxy adversary, always has been.

[togor]

Boggs your reasoning is pure naive peacenik and completely contrary to the arguments of strong deterrence which once upon a time would have been a staple of this board. So who has changed? And why? To follow President Bone Spurs into the abyss? Bad idea, that.

[clintonhater]

After all, who would have thought that the Iron Curtain would fall and American troops would be in Poland with the Poles blessing. I understand that Poland is willing to build a base for US troops to be stationed there.
Sam

The Iron Curtain haven fallen a long time ago, US troops don't NEED to be in Poland or anywhere else in Europe. If Poland can't rely on assistance from the strongest Nato power in Europe, Germany, right on their border, it proves (again) the worthlessness of Nato, except for attacking weak countries like Serbia that can't fight back. Poland deserves every other kind of support for being the only other country besides Hungary to resist radical EU liberalism, but US troops, no!

[S.A. Boggs]

Boggs your reasoning is pure naive peacenik and completely contrary to the arguments of strong deterrence which once upon a time would have been a staple of this board. So who has changed? And why? To follow President Bone Spurs into the abyss? Bad idea, that.

So let me get this straight, you are willing to let American Service Personal continue to go in harms way for your leftist political idea? The US has a strong deterrence sitting aboard our subs, nothing has changed has it? @ least MY PRESIDENT doesn't go around the world bent over with a jar of Vaseline like Obama did!
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

So let me get this straight, you are willing to let American Service Personal continue to go in harms way for your leftist political idea? The US has a strong deterrence sitting aboard our subs, nothing has changed has it? @ least MY PRESIDENT doesn't go around the world bent over with a jar of Vaseline like Obama did!
Sam

No, he gets pissed on in Russian hotel rooms. That's not even a metaphor.