Social Security

[Vern Humphrey]

I posted this in response to another thread, but the more I think about it, the more it looks like a worthy topic in its own right.

Let me tell you a story. After I retired from the Army, I went to work for a small company that got bought, sold, etc. Finally, it became part of a large company that had a 401k. I put the max in that 401k for a little over 10 years before retiring for good.

Note that while I was putting 15% of my income in the 401k I was ALSO involuntarily putting 15.3% into Social Security. (That includes the "Employer's Contribution" -- which is money I earned.)

Now I have to take Required Minimum Distribution from that 401k. And my RMD is $3,000 a year MORE than my Social Security AND my wife's Social Security combined!

Imagine where I'd be if I'd been allowed to KEEP and invest what Social Security took from me!

[togor]

Yes, Vern, but you're exceptional in this regard. How many of your peers at the time followed your example? None?

If young people are allowed to opt out of Social Security, then they most assuredly will, and current revenues into program will collapse. Those revenues meet generational promises made to many here years ago during their prime working years.

Your Employer plan also gave you good returns. Red's, IIRC, and through no fault of his, did not. The government keeps Social Security funds out of the equities markets, accepting lower returns on capital, but given its role as income-of-last-resort, this also strikes me as a good idea.

[Sandpebble]

And Kudos to you Vern for that . Taking a gamble and winning is very good,

But lets not forget the "Retired Army" part. That means you could already afford to invest the max in a 401. You didn't need to spend that investment on electric bills ... or food... did you ?

I do thank you for spending 20+ years of your life in a perfect socialist environment { the military } in defense of us all from socialism .... but that opportunity isn't open to all 375 million of us, is it?

I can tell you a story about a 401 that I had that disapeared when the crash came at the end of GWs time. It never came back and I'm damn sure glad I didn't have to depend on it.

Problem with stocks etc is there are some very smart people who do nothing more than figure out how to end up with your winnings ...... thats why it's called Social "Security"

[JB White]

Life is full of ups and downs. Some of us have had more downs than others. Some never had any ups at all. Very few in the middle class and under can put money away unless it's taken from their checks where they "Don't miss it". Don't look down your nose and judge hard working people who may be less fortunate.
My ex father-in-law poured his money into a supposedly fool proof 401k and lost it like some others did when the company shut its door overnight. Numbers on paper was all he had. In court they were compensated mere pennies on the dollar. Chump change in the grand scheme of things. He's 79 and is forced to keep working because he was too old to recover from that loss, and Social Security doesn't pay enough. It helps but it isn't enough in this inflated and highly taxed economy.
When you were 20 did you ever imagine a 10c loaf of bread would cost what it does today?

[S.A. Boggs]

Life is full of ups and downs. Some of us have had more downs than others. Some never had any ups at all. Very few in the middle class and under can put money away unless it's taken from their checks where they "Don't miss it". Don't look down your nose and judge hard working people who may be less fortunate.
My ex father-in-law poured his money into a supposedly fool proof 401k and lost it like some others did when the company shut its door overnight. Numbers on paper was all he had. In court they were compensated mere pennies on the dollar. Chump change in the grand scheme of things. He's 79 and is forced to keep working because he was too old to recover from that loss, and Social Security doesn't pay enough. It helps but it isn't enough in this inflated and highly taxed economy.
When you were 20 did you ever imagine a 10c loaf of bread would cost what it does today?

What most people forget/don't understand that "money" is just a special paper with ink backed by a promise. It is only good if someone else will accept it in exchange for something. Humans have bartered items in trade because of a supposed value to each other. Money in the bank is just numbers on a computer screen that can be lost or stolen in today's age. Is it better to have a home that is paid for or renting with money in the bank?
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

To our left wing critics -- why didn't you do what I did? Aren't you just as smart as I am?

Or did you DELIBERATELY choose NOT to provide for yourselves -- and in the process deliberately choosing not to bear your share of the tax burden? How can you live with yourselves, knowing that the poor would much better off if you all did what I did -- and paid the taxes that I pay.

- - - Updated - - -

Life is full of ups and downs. Some of us have had more downs than others. Some never had any ups at all. Very few in the middle class and under can put money away unless it's taken from their checks where they "Don't miss it".

The fact that they can save when it's taken from their checks where they "Don't miss it" is proof that they could save, regardless. Show me a man with a job who REALLY can't save, and I'll show you a dozen with the same pay scale who CAN save.

Of course, it would be a lot easier to save if the government didn't take that 15.3% off the top.

[togor]

Not that I'm left wing, Vern, but where do you get the idea that I didn't do exactly what you did? That I'm not doing it now? You're reading what you think you see into the discussion. As much as it might frustrate you to contemplate, you actually have more in common with me on this particular topic than you do with most other guys here on the forum.

[Sako]

Note that while I was putting 15% of my income in the 401k I was ALSO involuntarily putting 15.3% into Social Security. (That includes the "Employer's Contribution" -- which is money I earned.)

Sorry you didn't earn the 7.5% employer contribution on your ss taxes, that 7.5% is just another tax on the employer.

[Vern Humphrey]

Sorry you didn't earn the 7.5% employer contribution on your ss taxes, that 7.5% is just another tax on the employer.

And the money is EARNED by the employee -- they just deduct if BEFORE they cut your pay stub. If he didn't earn it, who did? Does anyone think that Hillary Clinton has taken a second job to pay the "Employers' Contribution" on everyone else's wages?

[JB White]

Vern, just count yourself among one of the blessed ones who didn't always have to face the $hit life can throw at them. You probably didn't come from a broken home. You probably didn't have to live in the crap part of town. You likely didn't have to feed and clothe yourself since 16. Odds are you didn't have to fight through gang territory every day just to finish high school. I'll bet you didn't spend your 20th birthday dodging the rainstorms, inside on a flophouse cot watching the roaches on the ceiling either. Likely you didn't have a selfish wife who wiped out everything you worked for. All behind your back while you were out bustin' your ass so your kids could go to college and not have to live that way.

No, I get the impression you hardly if ever worried about where your next meal was coming from. You had three hots and a cot along with a regularly scheduled paycheck. You may have done your duty and faced adversity, but you didn't have to muddle through the chicken bones and paper cups in the cheap seats.
Now you talk down to people like me from the ivory tower you've built without a clue as to what most of the people in this country go through. If I'm wrong and you struggled, then stop risin' above yer raisin's and remember where you came from. Count yourself lucky that you had a chance that many people don't get.

[barretcreek]

Two things. 1) That 15+ percent also pays for Medicare, which is its own disaster. 2) Every time I get in an argument with some kid with an arm full of ink, I ask 'em two questions. How much did all that cost, and how much is in your 401K?

JB, I went to school with a girl from Humboldt Park. My folks are from Chi, and my mother said that's no place for any girl to grow up.

[togor]

Well said JB. Not everyone gets a smooth path.

[JB White]

Red, you did well for yourself and might be in better financial shape that some of us around here. One thing you haven't done is look down on the rest just because you were able to pull yourself up by your own boot straps. You worked hard and you made it but you haven't forgotten what it was like. You sir, still have a clue and should be commended for that.

I guess we were both lucky for having such a great chance that many people don't get.

So long as you understand that and can still be who you are without the snobbery, I'll always respect you.

- - - Updated - - -

JB, I went to school with a girl from Humboldt Park. My folks are from Chi, and my mother said that's no place for any girl to grow up.

It isn't as bad as it had gotten in the 60's and 70's. I will actually venture into that area if I have to. They won't kill me for being white these days. While they've attempted to gentrify certain parts of that area, it is still a rough place to live. Especially for a female with a decent Christian upbringing.

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, just count yourself among one of the blessed ones who didn't always have to face the $hit life can throw at them. You probably didn't come from a broken home.

My parents were divorced when I was two.

You probably didn't have to live in the crap part of town.

Go here https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...1_M82127-21176

You likely didn't have to feed and clothe yourself since 16.

I certainly did -- and wore shirts made from chicken feed sacks.

Odds are you didn't have to fight through gang territory every day just to finish high school.

I fought through a rough Irish neighborhood, every day.

I'll bet you didn't spend your 20th birthday dodging the rainstorms, inside on a flophouse cot watching the roaches on the ceiling either.

No, I spent my 20th birthday in the field.

Likely you didn't have a selfish wife who wiped out everything you worked for. All behind your back while you were out bustin' your ass so your kids could go to college and not have to live that way.

No. I took to heart the proverb, "marry in haste, repent at leisure." My wife of 52 years was a hard-working nurse (and a Viet Nam era Army nurse.) The first Thanksgiving of our marriage, she sent me a Polish ham, which I cooked in the monsoon over a fire of mosquito-repellent soaked first aid compresses.

No, I get the impression you hardly if ever worried about where your next meal was coming from.

On more than one occasion I wondered about where my next breath was coming from.

You had three hots and a cot along with a regularly scheduled paycheck. You may have done your duty and faced adversity, but you didn't have to muddle through the chicken bones and paper cups in the cheap seats.

I started out with every disadvantage you had, and overcame them

Now you talk down to people like me from the ivory tower you've built without a clue as to what most of the people in this country go through. If I'm wrong and you struggled, then stop risin' above yer raisin's and remember where you came from. Count yourself lucky that you had a chance that many people don't get.

Virtually everyone has the chances I had -- they just failed to take advantage of them. And now they want me to make up for their failures.

[Sandpebble]

who fed this troll ??