Why the Confederate sub Hunley sank ...

[dogtag]

I find it hard to believe that all eight crew members
collectively forgot to release the keel weights so that
they could surface. More likely scenario is that the
levers malfunctioned.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nk-solved.html

[Roadkingtrax]

I blame the water.

[JB White]

Another good theory but still a theory nonetheless. Good for discussion though. The keel weights still locked in place and the men found at their stations with no signs of hysteria or panic leads me to think the weights remained locked intentionally. Perhaps they felt they may need to return submerged to avoid the Union blockade ships?

[Mark in Ottawa]

I had previously read that the latest theory was that the Hunley was too close to the explosive device that they planted on the Union vessel and that the force of the explosion killed or disabled all aboard. That would, of course, have made it impossible for them to release the weights

[clintonhater]

Wonder how many of those eight, or the two previous crews who also perished, owned a slave? My guess: not a one.

[dogtag]

They were certainly a brave bunch of guys.

[clintonhater]

They were certainly a brave bunch of guys.

That's my point--nobody crawled inside a proven death-trap to protect his right to own slaves.

Has the Hunley memorial been removed from public view yet? Hate to think of anyone being offended by it!

[JB White]

Why is slavery even an issue for this thread? It's a about a naval mishap and a pivotal point in world history.
Why is it in this day and age the War can't be mentioned anywhere in any context without all the revisionist history crap taking the forefront?

[Allen]

Again. The CW wasn't fought over slavery. At this point in time the Southerners were pretty pissed at the North for burning their homes, crops and business', killing and raping their family and so forth. I don't know if any of them actually knew why all the hatred all of a sudden. As far as the Hunley goes a friend/acquaintance from my college days built a full scale replica of the Hunley and since Mobile (where it was built) didn't get to keep the original they did keep the copy at one of the museums last time I looked.

As far as the attack, yes, there has been much written about it as far as the Hunley being too close when the charge was set off but also air was scarce inside the sub. They kept a candle lit, when the flame died they knew they had to scuttle to the surface quick to breath. After attacking a Union war ship I doubt they wanted to surface any time soon just to get shot at. My guess is they held out too long, passed out and suffocated.

Apparently when Mobile moved artifacts from one museum to another to make the old museum a Mardi Gras museum they moved the Hunley replica to the USS Alabama battleship park and placed it beside the USS Drum WW11 submarine. That propane tank looking thing on the sidewalk is the replica.

[clintonhater]

Why is slavery even an issue for this thread?

Because EVERYTHING associated with the Confederacy is under attack, & it's under attack because of the slavery issue!!! The heroism of ordinary Confederate soldiers (damned few of whom had the wealth to own slaves), struggling against an enemy possessing overwhelming superiorities in all the tools of industrial warfare, is demeaned & dishonored every time a Confederate memorial is removed or destroyed, which is happening so frequently it's ceased even to attract much press notice.

Even a showing of Gone With the Wind a few days ago on TCM just HAD to be preceded with a long introduction warning viewers to remember, while they watched it, that these seemingly "nice," courteous & well-mannered Southerners were in reality brutal oppressors of their slaves!

[Art]

Wonder how many of those eight, or the two previous crews who also perished, owned a slave? My guess: not a one.

I'm going to do this again. I suggest anyone looking for the direct cause of the "War Between the States" look at the original documents. Especially the "Declarations of Secession" of those Confederate States that issued one (essentially state declarations of independence I recommend the "Declaration of Secession of the State of Mississippi" since it is the most clear or the "Cornerstone Speech" by Alexander Stevens Vice President of the Confederate States of America.

[Allen]

Thank you. The South gets condemned for slavery as if it happened no where else. Throughout history of the world slavery has been an issue. The blacks were just among the most recent in America. Back when the Spanish were trying to take over America they had whites, European's, native Indians and even other Spanish people as slaves. Slavery is still present in some parts of the world, there just isn't any media outcry over it.

[Art]

Thank you. The South gets condemned for slavery as if it happened no where else. Throughout history of the world slavery has been an issue. The blacks were just among the most recent in America. Back when the Spanish were trying to take over America they had whites, European's, native Indians and even other Spanish people as slaves. Slavery is still present in some parts of the world, there just isn't any media outcry over it.

A lot changed on that in the 100 years before the War between the States. Britain abolished slavery in the Empire in 1808 and then the slave trade worldwide in 1836 (because they could .) As European colonies in the western hemisphere became independent they universally abolished the practice. This was partly due to 18th and 19th century declarations by the Catholic church denouncing slavery as immoral and contrary to Christian teaching. Mexico is a prime example, slavery being outlawed subsequent to the Constitution of 1824. One of the issues in the Texas revolution, though not the paramount one was the prohibition against chattel slavery in that country. The only place where chattel slavery was practiced (legally) in western civilization in the mid 19th century was in the southern United States.

The fact is....Southern slavery wasn't referred to as "the peculiar institution" by almost everybody else in the world for nothing.

This does not mean that slavery did not exist, and sometimes flourish illegally. In fact it still exists in pockets in the United States. One of my last functions as a "law dog" was assisting in a slavery case in east Texas, and then there is peonage which while not being slavery de facto or de jure accomplishes about the same end. To this day the Department of Justice maintains a division to handle slavery and peonage cases.

By the way my mother's family in southeast Texas was "gentry" before (and after) the war and was indeed a slave holding family. My father's family in New Orleans at the same time were open abolitionists, bet they had a fun time during and right after the war .

[clintonhater]

As European colonies in the western hemisphere became independent they universally abolished the practice.

How many of those countries had economies almost totally dependent on cotton production? Easy to give up what's not vitally important to your welfare.

Britain & the Northern states COULD have ended slavery very quickly merely by refusing to buy slave-produced products! Nor would that have meant an end to the cotton their mills needed to produce cloth, as there was vast cotton production in Egypt & India. Might have cost mill owners a little more to buy it, but a small price to pay for the immense satisfaction of self-righteousness.

[togor]

Well CH, Britain COULD have decided to recognize the South during the Civil War, or to break the Union naval blockade. Lord knows they had the ships to do it. Yet they decided against doing these things. So I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make. You laud the brave crew of the Hunley as likely non-slaveholders, while at the same time appearing to lay the blame for slavery anywhere but where it was practiced.