How the US Constitution works against Third Parties

[Vern Humphrey]

Imagine you're English and you want to vote for the Prime Minister. How do you do it?

You can't! There is no slot on your ballot for Prime Minister. You can only vote for your choice for local Member of Parliament (MP.) When the election is over, the Queen calls in the leader of the majority party and asks him to "form a government." He becomes HER Prime Minister, and selects MPs from his own party to fill key positions -- Treasury, Defense, etc. So the House of Commons is BOTH the Executive AND the Legislative arm of government. The House of Lords handles the Courts.

The British Parliament currently has 650 elected members of the House of Commons. Imagine after the next election there are 324 Conservatives, 324 Labour members, and 2 Left-handed, Red-headed Beekeepers. Who decides who the Prime Minister will be?

Why the Left-handed, Red-headed Beekeepers, of course! They bargain with the Conservatives and Labour and join with the party that gives them the best deal. This shows how in a system like the English, Third Parties can have power all out of proportion to their numbers.

But the United States has Separation of Powers -- the Left-handed, Red-headed Beekeepers cannot determine who will be President simply by forming a coalition with the Democrats or Republicans. In a system like ours, Third Parties cannot succeed unless they somehow become the majority. This has happened once in our history, the Election of 1860. And the result was the party from which the Republicans sprang, the Whig Party, simply died -- AND there was a Civil War.

[dogtag]

The British election process takes a few weeks of campaigning. Very small expenditure.
The American election process takes as much as two years of campaigning. Hundreds of millions spent.

[Roadkingtrax]

The British election process takes a few weeks of campaigning. Very small expenditure.
The American election process takes as much as two years of campaigning. Hundreds of millions spent.

Because we're that dumb?

[S.A. Boggs]

Because we're that dumb?

Unfortunately it takes "liberals" some time to understand so that is why it takes so long.
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

Unfortunately it takes "liberals" some time to understand so that is why it takes so long.
Sam

No, stupidity bears no political affiliation, but certainly could be geographical in nature.

[S.A. Boggs]

No, stupidity bears no political affiliation, but certainly could be geographical in nature.

What is the difference between dumb and stupid?
Sam

[blackhawknj]

When the Constitution was written there were no parties. If a UK government loses a Vote of Confidence the government must step down and a new one formed, a General Election must be held. Or a government may call a snap election-and lose it, then...
The instability of the Third Republic in France, the Weimar Republic is the best argument against proportional representation.

[Roadkingtrax]

What is the difference between dumb and stupid?
Sam

About 5 minutes here.

[S.A. Boggs]

About 5 minutes here.

No idea?
Sam

[dogtag]

When the Constitution was written there were no parties. If a UK government loses a Vote of Confidence the government must step down and a new one formed, a General Election must be held. Or a government may call a snap election-and lose it, then...
The instability of the Third Republic in France, the Weimar Republic is the best argument against proportional representation.

And Britain has been around a long long time.
Whether the Parliamentary system is better than other systems is debatable,
but there many countries around the world that have adopted the parliamentary way.

[Vern Humphrey]

And Britain has been around a long long time.
Whether the Parliamentary system is better than other systems is debatable,
but there many countries around the world that have adopted the parliamentary way.

The question is not which system is best, but rather why Third Parties can succeed in Parliamentary governments, but not in ours. Separation of powers deprives Third Parties of an advantage they have in Parliamentary systems.

[blackhawknj]

Third Parties, minor parties work when you have proportional representation, but as noted they can exercise power all out of proportion to their numbers-the religious parties in Israel, e.g. Combining our system of separation of powers, fixed terms for the executive, legislators, etc. with proportional representation might work better, so far nobody has tried it. Nebraska is the only state with a unicameral legislature. The purpose of a government is to govern. In France the Third Republic was notorious for its endless political crises and cabinet reshuffles-"Dinner lasts longer than the government", the Weimar Republic had fifteen cabinets between 1919 and 1928.

[dogtag]

Third Parties, minor parties work when you have proportional representation, but as noted they can exercise power all out of proportion to their numbers-the religious parties in Israel, e.g. Combining our system of separation of powers, fixed terms for the executive, legislators, etc. with proportional representation might work better, so far nobody has tried it. Nebraska is the only state with a unicameral legislature. The purpose of a government is to govern. In France the Third Republic was notorious for its endless political crises and cabinet reshuffles-"Dinner lasts longer than the government", the Weimar Republic had fifteen cabinets between 1919 and 1928.

I think maybe Italy holds the record for overnight party failures.

[Vern Humphrey]

Just to get in a dig at our Canadian members, there is an old saying, "Canada is a country that had a chance to have British government, French culture, and American know-how. And they chose French government, American culture and British know-how."

[PWC]

Wow! Tbis is a really interesting thread......and. no rancor showing. Hope it stays so when tbe discussion turns to "colonial" politics.