GE, Once America's Most Valuable Company, Now Fights Junk Bond Status

[JB White]

So place him on your ignore list!! Regards, Clark

No need for that. Togor and I have never taken our disagreements to the insults and name calling beyond the 'Damned Cubs/Brewers fan' and 'Cheesehead vs.Flatlander' realm.

JB my first horse got shot out from under me after 4.5 years on the job. The whole site went tits-up and everyone got 60 days severance. I worked hard, did good work, but when the money is gone the money is gone. Ever since through many other employers I did the calculation....what are the odds of this shop being open in 6 months or a year with me still in it? Sometimes I didn't like the odds and it was time to move.

Being a diligent, hard worker is not enough to make it in our system. That's just the way it is. You have to have a skill that people want to buy, and be able to give people a reason to buy it from you. This is from my Gospel 101 sermon to my own kids as they start their journeys.

I know there are stories of people who feel used up by our labor market, but it is what it is. As for what to do about it....moving the things hard to the left would be a lousy idea, but moving to the left a little, so that people like your family member don't get screwed as bad, maybe not a terrible thing, right?

Say CFPB, that Liz Warren brainchild that is supposed to push back against shoddy and predatory lending practices by big banks. We're told this is a bad idea. But why? Why is it bad to limit big banks from hanging loans on people that they can never repay?

I know guys that went into engineering Management in their first company and stayed there. Two decades of bonuses and a nice life. Now middle aged and there is news of company re-orgs in the wind. Guess what? No one wants someone else's middle managers. I had to do it sometimes but mostly I stayed technical and in the hard skills, even if that left money on the table.

Severance pay? What's that? LOL. The company needs access to sufficient funds to cover payroll before offering any severance. Didn't happen in my line of work. Layoff was payoff. All we got was one hour pay for several CYA reasons. Mostly to round up our belongings to leave the site. Also to make sure we were still technically on the payroll and thus insured in the event of a mishap. Both sides were covered. Although some contractors did pay some of us...let's say through Friday when layoff fell on Wednesday. That was their choice to say thank you in that fashion. It also helped to get us back when the work picked up again.

I lean right but am known to sway towards the left within certain parameters. I fought to retain portions of the scaffolding act to preserve safety for workers. Yet, I scoff at those who think mop sloshers and burger flippers are worth 10x what they currently earn. My own union reinforced what I learned in the classroom. "You're not worth it. You get it only when the market will tolerate it". That's why certain taxpayer paid unions and the SEIU piss me off so often.

Remember now, I live in Chicago. I'm a union member so therefore I must be a Democrat. Correct? Ha! I'm also NRA and often fly a Gadsden Flag out front. Therefore I must be a dyed-in-the-wool Republican...right? I just smile when going to vote.

[Major Tom]

We have a GE plant in our town. My neighbor has worked there for 20+ years. Fist they cut their wages, then cut their benefits including medical then some company bought their plant. He and his wife now pay $700+ per month for medical. He can retire but his pension would be minimal, so he keeps working there.

[JB White]

We have a GE plant in our town. My neighbor has worked there for 20+ years. Fist they cut their wages, then cut their benefits including medical then some company bought their plant. He and his wife now pay $700+ per month for medical. He can retire but his pension would be minimal, so he keeps working there.

Starting to see a pattern?

[togor]

When manufacturing was in a long ascent, a line worker could make a career of it, possibly in a single plant, and call it good with a retirement to boot. But as a fraction of the economy now, manufacturing is flat to declining, and at best it's going to be a seesaw on the line. And even if you take Asia out of the equation, automation increases its share of the pie.

The knock on unions is that they take too much of the risk/reward out of it for the workers, that it's bad for the economy. That's a fair complaint but there are similar fair complaints to be leveled at capital. Too much in this era for example they want to privatize profit and socialize loss.

[JB White]

You've made mention of line workers and production lines. There is more affected than that. A neighbor of mine had her department dismantled and the workload contracted out after 25+ years working for Bank of America. BofA did offer severance though and given her tenure she was awarded one year salary. Try finding a job you're comfortable with when 50 years old and everyone else is going the same route. The jobs are no longer there and the competition is heavy and on equal footing.
She finally landed a job "shuffling paperwork" in the medical field at less than half of what she had grown accustomed to earning. I'm having a hard time fathoming what they call good jobs-good pay these days since I was earning that kind of pay back in the 80's.

[PWC]

In the late 90's GE was supposed to buy Honeywell in a Merger. Thank heavens the European union killed the deal. When the GE transition team came into our HON plant they made no bones about thast they were going to raid the Engineering Dept for all prints and patents and special tooling, and only selectively keep some employees, mostly in mfg and assembly (tribal knowledge) temporarily as GE already had their own internal structure to cover the rest.

Thank heavens the EU saw it as a monopoly as GE sold engines and HON sold cockpits and navigation and killed the deal. I do truly feel sorry for the GE folks; I used to be taller than I am now, but in my working career I was downsized 6 times. I know what it is like to be told your job has been eliminated, or outsourced, and it always happened in the Sep - Dec time frame. Happy Thanksgiving, now don't come back. Some times were harder than others, but God always provided. And each new job was better than the last one.

[Allen]

In the late 90's GE was supposed to buy Honeywell in a Merger.

These are some of the Honeywell touch screen monitors I used for nearly 20 years at the refinery I worked at. The controllers/brains/system managers were in in another large room and generated a lot of heat. We had to keep the control room temps like an igloo year round to protect the equipment. When the engineers would visit us, particularly the ladies, they would wear jackets. This instrumentation (installed in 1993) represents about 1/4 of what this control room contained and we had 8 control rooms. These blurry pictures were taken years ago but the equipment is still in service. Honeywell makes some good stuff. Glad too that GE didn't buy and destroy them.

[RED]

"Being a diligent, hard worker is not enough to make it in our system."

I hope everybody reads this!!! It is total Pravda Communist propaganda. Millions of diligent, hard working people in America over the past 75 years have made it in a great America. (My sister for one) and our Communist says flat out that it can't be done.

JB??? Are you saying that you would have treated fellow Chicagoan, John Wayne Gacy the same way you treat togor? Trust me, John Wayne Gacy was a better person and a better American.

[togor]

Red misses the point... again.

In tiny words...

To make lots of money, a person must learn to be good at things that are not easy to do. Lots of people can carry lumber. Takes skill to make a door frame.

I'm making a simple observation on the state of the labor market today.

[togor]

But now I'm intrigued by something. Quoth Red: "JB, I knew John Wayne Gacy. Togor is no John Wayne Gacy!" Accidental humor is the best kind sometimes.

[JB White]

You and I are in disagreement, but I'm completely lost on this latest development. Togor, have you been burying boys in your basement again? LOL

[togor]

JB I don't know if we're all that much in disagreement on the subject of what it takes for a worker to cut it these days, or if we are, you in fact may be to the left of me....or the right....

As for Red, no disagreement there, as I'm similarly befuddled by our friend's latest post. Reprising Lloyd Bentsen's dig on Dan Quayle with John Wayne Gacy in the JFK role....an almost Kathy Griffin-esque bit of performance art there.

[JB White]

an almost Kathy Griffin-esque bit of performance art there

Now, this is one of those times when we agree.