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Talk to Red about it.
If ISIS is done in Syria, then why does Trump talk about going back in (if necessary) from Iraq? Something doesn't smell right about this.
Even the dumbest dog knows that turning your back in a tense situation is a risky move. The ROI logic doesn't make much sense to me here. Compared to the expenditure of the rest of the military budget, our people there are at least at some level of engagement with the enemy.Comment
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ISIS is not done in Syria. Nor is it done in Egypt, Lybia, Lebanon, Turkey, Algeria, Morroco, Iraq, Iran, Yeman, Afghanistan, or Pakistan, etc. They cannot be defeated... period. You cannot defeat an idea. However, they can be defended against and contained where possible and that is about all we can hope for.
Ask togor why if he was against our going into Iraq, and Afghanistan, why is he now for us staying in Syria and going to war with Saudi Arabia over Khashoggi?Last edited by RED; 12-28-2018, 04:49.Comment
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Red you're as bad as they come for hanging words on other people. Like Vernon you have to create then attack straw men.
The initial Iraq war was a strategic blunder of epic proportions. Not only did we piss away our post 9/11 good will, we destabilized the region, wasted away countless billions, and killed thousands of our own service people, and wounded many more, not to speak of innocent Iraqis. Our reason for going into Afghanistan was clearly understood, but got muddled with time. I can't blame DC for that too much because every single player in the region always tries to muddle the picture. It's how they survive.
We're in Syria specifically to reduce ISIS, and to deny Iran a land route to the Med, and, I would suggest, to keep the Kurds from being blown to pieces. All of these things are worthwhile, in my opinion, and the fact that Erdogan, Putin and Khamenei all want us to be gone calls to mind for me Napoleon's 16th Maxim:
My reasoning I think is sound, and outside of the Trump bubble, many agree with it, and wonder whose interests Trump is actually trying to advance.never to do what the enemy wishes you to do, for this reason alone, that he desires it.Comment
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I wasn't aware that the Suez Canal was blocked from passage to the Iranian's. I thought the canal was owned and
operated by an Islamic country named Egypt. No matter what happens in Syria, the Iranians have unfettered access to the Mediterranean. And, keeping the Kurds from being eradicated is exactly where on the to do list of the U.S.? That's where things like the UN or possibly NATO are supposed to do. So we should have let Saddam take Kuwait but not allow Russia to take the Crimea? You seem to want to waste money and troops anywhere in the world... except protecting our own borders.
And BTW, Napoleon often ignored his own Maxim's and June 24th, 1812 is an example. (Re. #3.)
If ISIS is done in Syria,Done and reduced are two very different words.specifically to reduce ISISLast edited by RED; 12-28-2018, 10:29.Comment
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They'll stop the killing when one side or another capitulates and they get everyone into the same mindset.2016 Chicago Cubs. MLB Champions!
**Never quite as old as the other old farts**Comment
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Red you may find it unimportant but the Iranians place great value in a land route to the Med, as it eliminates the possibility of naval interdiction.
If Trump was for doubling the Syrian mission then you'd be all for it. He's for zeroing it out so you're all for that. You give him credit for being a 5-D chess grandmaster when the evidence points to him just making it up as he goes. That's the part that I think will eventually cost us--Trump's implusiveness backed by a distorted view of the worth of things. Like personal loyalty over competence, as one example.Comment
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There you go again with more of your propaganda and lies. I only supported using the military in Syria to halt the use of chemical weapons of mass destruction (remember the red line?). Weapons that BTW came from Iraq that you claim never existed.
As far as the access to the Med, there are 2 ports on the Med in Syria. They are Latakia and Tartus. Latakia is 700 miles from Iran's industrial cities and the overland route goes through Iraq. Tartus is primarily a Russian Naval base. Both can be shut down by the U.S., Russia, or by Israel at will. The amount of trade that originates in Iran and moves through Syria and into the Med via Latakia is minimal and nowhere near the port in Beirut that has a berth productivity of 52 containers per berth hour which is 10X that of Latakia, Syria. Why aren't the Iranians after that port instead?
In case you haven't looked at it, here is a link to maps of the middle east. Note the ground route from Iran to the ports in Syria.
As far as personal loyalty over competence... another lie. Manafort, Flynn, Cohen, et al were all very competent in what they did. However their loyalty went to personal aggrandizement and greed and not to loyalty to the President. Therein is the problem. If you work for Trump and he asks you to solve a problem and then you break the law or the social norms to do so, that aggravates the situation instead of solving it.Last edited by RED; 12-28-2018, 03:43.Comment
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Red, a bit dated now in some respects, but worth a read.
There are plenty of Trump stories about the value he places on personal loyalty. He even called Cohen a "rat", using a mob term for an informant.Comment
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Twist and turn. You still haven't supported the lie that our troops are needed in Syria to keep Iran from having a port in Syria. The "corridor," through Iraq is laughable. The Iranians would never be able to support a hair brained idea of moving their trade goods (90% of which is oil) through Iraq to either of the two ports in Syria. Remember the Iraq/Iran war? Most of Iran's oil goes to India, China, and Korea.Red, a bit dated now in some respects, but worth a read.
There are plenty of Trump stories about the value he places on personal loyalty. He even called Cohen a "rat", using a mob term for an informant.
The Russians are in Syria fighting ISIS not the Syrian dictator. I say let them do it. In fact I say get out of Afghanistan and let the Russians go back and fight the Jihadists there as well.
And so now are you claiming that the only reason Cohen did the underhanded and illegal things he did was because of his unswerving loyalty to DJT and not for personal gain?Last edited by RED; 12-29-2018, 06:10.Comment
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Red you didn't click the link. Did you think it was about trucking Iranian goods to Syrian ports?
Anyways, my opinion is that cutting and running from a fight now will invite consequences later, because force is the only thing those people understand. Pay now or pay later.Comment
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Iranian goods to Syrian ports
Are you really this stupid? What goods... oil is something like 90% of Iran's exports and oil is exported in tanker ships or pipelines not trucks.
Yes I read the link and laughed at it's stupidity. But you didn't look at the map and the route the trucks would have to take to get to Syria. Iran and Iraq are not friends, and Iraq lies between Iran and Syria.
You ignore reality in your Socialist lies and propaganda.Comment
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You're missing the point, for deliberate reasons or otherwise. Iran currently has to fly troops into Syria. They'd like a land route if they can get one, and they won't get one if they don't try. This is not Saddam's Iraq anymore, and so your statement that "they're not friends" fails to accurately summarize the relationship. When it comes to embracing reality, I'm confident that my bubble is much much bigger than yours. I don't have your Trump-sized blind spot, for example. That must have been some world-class flattery that Erdogan dropped on Trump, to get him to drop sanctions and pull out of Syria. Yeah sure the Turks will see to our interests there, no worries at all on that point.Comment
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Agitate, agitate, agitate.... The land route of 1,200 miles from industries in Iran is a fictitious bit of bull $h:t you are using to promote your crazy and pointless arguments and has nothing at all to do with Donald Trump. Whether we stay in Syria or not, your pipe dreams and wishing for a stronger Iraq are silly and pointless. Oil, Minerals and ash make up 80+% of Iran's trade goods. None of those things can be profitable using trucks to haul them over 1,200 land miles. A semi loaded with oil holds 9,000 gallons. A tanker ship can carry 24 million gallons or the same amount as 2,666 trucks.
Tell me again how this magic caravan trail is going to work. And tell me again how Iran is going to build a super highway all the way across Iraq so they can export embargoed goods from a port they don't own and couldn't protect in case of conflict.
And your only point is agitate, agitate, twist and turn, hate and burn .Last edited by RED; 12-30-2018, 05:55.Comment
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