OK...lets start afresh

[Sandpebble]

OK lets start a similar thread differently .... lets all explain why we think guys like Paul Manafort and Roger Stone are "good".

Not an arguement here.... I'll stay out of this thread from here on out so you won't have to "ignore " me ..

just interested..... go for it, tell us all why you think they are so.... pro American

[togor]

My prediction is for crickets, but trying on a "Trump supporter" hat for size, I'll have a go. For one thing, people who loyally support Trump like Manafort or Stone, even if they are imperfect, are at least on the right side of the great issues for the day, so to first order we give them the benefit of the doubt. Second, if they display loyalty to the leader and the cause, then they deserve loyalty in return. Conversely, if they are revealed to be disloyal (see Cohen, Michael), then we have no use for them. The question of whether someone objectively broke the law and objectively deserves to be punished went out the window long ago, with crap that the Clintons did and got away with.

Taking off that "Trump supporter" hat again (did not feel to comfortable wearing it, as I started having thoughts that were strangely not my own), I would say that the idea that there are impartial referees out there who are in a position to pass judgement on a Manafort or Stone is an uncomfortable one for the base. And yet I would remind people that there was at least one MAGA hat on the Manafort jury, who with political convictions notwithstanding, found it in their ability to convict on 8 counts, because the evidence was just that overwhelming. One way of looking at it is if someone sunk some precious investment funds in a company only to discover that the prospectus was a load of crap. It's a tough place to be and it takes time to get through it. So it may be with many who invested their hopes and dreams in Trump. This is a tough time and the grieving they are feeling is genuine.

[p246]

I could care less about either....

[clintonhater]

That's easy! Anyone who attempts to thwart those--the radical left, otherwise known as the Demo party--working tirelessly to subvert traditional American culture & values is not merely "good" but a hero worthy of the highest praise!

[Roadkingtrax]

I could care less about either....

That's an agreeable statement.

[clintonhater]

And yet I would remind people that there was at least one MAGA hat on the Manafort jury, who with political convictions notwithstanding, found it in their ability to convict on 8 counts, because the evidence was just that overwhelming.

A weakling who lost sight of the forest for the trees. Whatever Manafort's individual crimes, giving aid & comfort to the enemy (by convicting him) was a greater moral failure. Discovering that your brother in arms is a cheat, liar, thief, & otherwise morally reprehensible, does not justify betraying him to your common enemy.

[togor]

A weakling who lost sight of the forest for the trees. Whatever Manafort's individual crimes, giving aid & comfort to the enemy (by convicting him) was a greater moral failure. Discovering that your brother in arms is a cheat, liar, thief, & otherwise morally reprehensible, does not justify betraying him to your common enemy.

If a juror takes an oath with the intention of not upholding it, then I'd say they're part of the problem and not part of the solution. If we can't live by laws of our own making then we're no better than an angry mob begging to be ruled by an iron fist. That may work for some but no thanks here.

[clintonhater]

If a juror takes an oath with the intention of not upholding it...

He's a good soldier, & loyal to a higher cause than pettifogging legal niceties.

[lyman]

it's just smoke and mirrors,

not that much different that whitewater etc back in the day

[togor]

He's a good soldier, & loyal to a higher cause than pettifogging legal niceties.

I have a feeling that the road to hell is paved with temporary expediencies.

[clintonhater]

I have a feeling that the road to hell is paved with temporary expediencies.

War IS hell, & those who don't realize this country is in the middle of a desperate culture-war are blind fools. Furthermore, it's not a "fair" war, because most of the vehicles of public information--TV, the press, the entertainment industry--are working tirelessly to defeat one side in this war & empower the other.

[togor]

War IS hell, & those who don't realize this country is in the middle of a desperate culture-war are blind fools. Furthermore, it's not a "fair" war, because most of the vehicles of public information--TV, the press, the entertainment industry--are working tirelessly to defeat one side in this war & empower the other.

From a free market perspective (is that bad now?) media is just servicing an existing demand?

[clintonhater]

From a free market perspective (is that bad now?) media is just servicing an existing demand?

For democracy to function as it's supposed to, the first requirement is an objective, non-partisan, press committed to reporting events without bias--or at least, without the BLATANT bias that characterizes the US media, mouthpiece of the Dem Party.

[togor]

For democracy to function as it's supposed to, the first requirement is an objective, non-partisan, press committed to reporting events without bias--or at least, without the BLATANT bias that characterizes the US media, mouthpiece of the Dem Party.

Truly? Are the archives not full of examples of yellow (and yellowed) journalism? Slanted polemics intended to arise the ire of the masses? A free press has always had a mix of voices, some more objective than others, some less. And hand-wringing that the voting public is being fed garbage and voting accordingly has been a part of the landscape since the beginning, yes?

[Sandpebble]

Truly? Are the archives not full of examples of yellow (and yellowed) journalism? Slanted polemics intended to arise the ire of the masses? A free press has always had a mix of voices, some more objective than others, some less. And hand-wringing that the voting public is being fed garbage and voting accordingly has been a part of the landscape since the beginning, yes?

And then came the internet....with social media like Facebook that has been proven to be a tool used to change thoughts and ideas , even habits of others...

and the likes of here where an opposing viewpoint is to be ridiculed and discouraged blindly.... and sure....I'll claim equal guilt on this.... will any one else ?