Harley-Davidsonn, a prospective

[RED]

Any Harley-Davidson fans out there???

The following is a quote from a former officer in the Harley-Davidson Corporation. His analysis of their future and the nature of their problems is interesting and says a lot about U.S. corporate leadership.

The US market was always vulnerable, and is now collapsing, which is why they (HD) have been searching the planet for customers. Made in America was a good thing for American brand marketing, in America, but is a non starter in the 3rd world looking for cheap transportation. Even in Europe and Asia this Branding only worked with the prestige of them owning a real full size Harley! To market what amounts to $30,000 electric Scooters to Euro Metrosexuals and little Indian and Chinese boys is a non starter!

They only got in a pissing contest with Trump when they wanted to close US facilities and lay off workers to move production to international locations to avoid the tariffs in Europe and Asia. The time to have done this was BEFORE they over extended US production facilities. It's called long range planning! Now all they can do is blame Trump!

My forecast is the market shorts are going to smell blood in the water, and is going to go the way of Sears. I feel sorry for all the dealers. The one here in _____________ is already boarded up!

The point being, if the National Socialist Democratic party ever gets control of the Presidency and pass their horrendous tax increases, dozens of corporations will face the same fate as Sears, Harley, etc.

[Roadkingtrax]

So, who is this quoted from? All those Harley t-shirts might be worth more one day.

Harley is a victim of their own market saturation, and not much else.

[togor]

Way too simplistic an analysis. It's Harley's fault that they're sensitive to the steel price? It's called Milwaukee Iron for a reason. Classic Trumpist thinking--if unintended consequences flow from one of The Donald's big decisions, then the blame has to lie elsewhere. It can't possibly be that the decision had flaws to begin with.

[clintonhater]

Way too simplistic an analysis. It's Harley's fault that they're sensitive to the steel price? It's called Milwaukee Iron for a reason. Classic Trumpist thinking--if unintended consequences flow from one of The Donald's big decisions, then the blame has to lie elsewhere. It can't possibly be that the decision had flaws to begin with.

Like to know how much more HD is paying for steel per machine now, compared to previously--$100? So the customer willing to spend $30,000 won't pay $30,100.

Of course, it's absurd to think the Turd World would be a good market for ANY luxury good. (Except of course their corrupt gov't officials who always drive Mercedes & live in mansions.)

[togor]

So help me out here....when is it that we expect corporations to know their business better than the government and when is it that we don't? Like it or not, Trump is literally the government on this issue.

And Red's logic is incredible on this issue: If you don't like Trump's tariffs, then for sure don't vote for Democrats. Breaking new ground with convoluted thinking.

[Roadkingtrax]

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/10/31/harley-davidsons-earnings-are-worse-than-you-think.aspx

There's actually a string of HD articles on that link, most from the 1st quarter of 2019.

Like any other commodity, there's always a path forward and that doesn't have to be politically linked.

Here's where it gets ugly
Yet for the seventh straight quarter -- and the 14th out of the last 15 quarters -- domestic sales of motorcycles fell, this time by 13.3% to 36,220 bikes. Not even during the worst parts of the recession a decade ago did Harley sell so few motorcycles in the third quarter.

There's no question Harley is caught in an industrywide slump that's seeing the entire market dragged down, but the 9.8% decline in sales for motorcycles with engines 601 cubic centimeters and larger was decidedly better than the bike maker's drop. Harley expects the market and itself to struggle well into 2019, and it is counting on its More Roads to Harley-Davidson road map for the future to help address the downturn.

[togor]

I've driven through the Dakotas around early August many times over the last 20 years. That's a lot of Sturgis traffic coming and going. Without a doubt the trend is towards more bikes making the trip on trailers. I remember crossing the country on a GS1000 with no screen. For a full day's drive, 55 mph seems plenty fast. HD's US customer base is aging out. IMO they need a new power plant.

[Mike in NC]

In India, our full size American motorcycles like Harley-Davidson, have a tariff of 100%. They double the price of Harley's to protect their motorcycle industry. Trump is the only recent President that has been willing to do more than just grumble about unequal and unfair trade situations.

[bdm]

I have owned a lot of motorcycles in my lifetime including many Harley Davidson bikes my latest bike and my last one i am going to buy is a Honda VTX 1300 good price easy to work on drive shaft air fuel carburetor adjustment easy tappet valves easy to adjust regular gas good strong water cooled motor my friend has one 156,000 miles on it.My personal thoughts are the new Harley Davidson bikes are not as good as the older ones a lot my friends who were hard core Harley riders switched to Honda Gold Wings and BMWs

[lyman]

harley was the comeback darling when all the stock brokers, doctors and dentist decided they had to have a new one for the midlife crisis,

that market is now down (cyclical like all markets) and they did not do much if anything to get the ricer crowd interested (killing off Buell was maybe not smart)

the few people I know that still ride, don't buy new, they get the low mileage trade-ins at a better price

[dogtag]

They can blow your eardrums out if they go past your open window whilst changing gear.
Why they bother with mufflers is a mystery seeing as how they don't muffle.

[RED]

I've driven through the Dakotas around early August many times over the last 20 years. That's a lot of Sturgis traffic coming and going. Without a doubt the trend is towards more bikes making the trip on trailers. I remember crossing the country on a GS1000 with no screen. For a full day's drive, 55 mph seems plenty fast. HD's US customer base is aging out. IMO they need a new power plant.


And Red's logic is incredible on this issue: If you don't like Trump's tariffs, then for sure don't vote for Democrats. Breaking new ground with convoluted thinking.

More lies and absolute BS. The quote puts it clearly in prospective, For years Harley has failed to do any proper long time planning and, like Sears is suffering from the failure. The price of iron doesn't have a damn thing to do with Harley's decline. That decline actually began when Harley split from AMW years ago and as Lyman correctly points out they are suffering from the failure to produce a product that the customers want. Harley's were always more expensive than their competitor's and DJT has no part in their failures over the years.

But leave it to a jackass that thinks the great flood was caused by DJT. Honda is expanding automotive manufacturing in America while eliminating the Gold Wing made in Marysville, OH. And let's see the Stooges twist that facts and tell us that Honda is dropping the motor cycle plant (Trumps fault) and making more cars because he thinks more iron is used in motorcycles.

[Roadkingtrax]

They can blow your eardrums out if they go past your open window whilst changing gear.
Why they bother with mufflers is a mystery seeing as how they don't muffle.

Stock ones do, but most riders don't understand what back pressure does to assist in making power. They want straight pipes.

[togor]

Red talks like a liberal. Taxes (tariffs) are great and corporate management can't be trusted to make good decisions. When AOC runs you'll be her biggest fan.

[p246]

I’ve owned everything, my last new bike was a Moto Guzzi California. ABS, good electronics with three fuel maps, good power to weight ratio, very comfortable ride. Harley has not kept up in the engine and electronics area imo. However no ones beats them in parts, dealers and roadside assistance at least for now anyway (things Moto Guzzi lacks in) They are going to have to suck it up and figure out a way to survive.