9/11 Revisited

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Mark in Ottawa
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 1744

    #1

    9/11 Revisited

    I was at the end of season gala luncheon of a 99 year old discussion club to which I belong here in Ottawa

    The guest speaker was the man who was the Canadian Minister of Transport during 9/11

    He said a number of interesting things, most of which I didn’t know.

    - By international agreement, responsibility for air traffic control in the North Atlantic is split between the UK and Ireland in the East and Canada in the West

    - When the American FAA closed down all air traffic in the US and forbade any aircraft from entering US airspace, they did so without any consultation, apparently including consultation with other US agencies and definitely not with Canada. Also with no real thought about the aircraft that were in the air and on their way to the USA

    - There were about 400 aircraft in some stage of travelling across the Atlantic or getting ready to do so. When the FAA forbade any aircraft from entering the US, about half were able to be turned around while the other half were past the point of no return and effectively became Canada’s problem (even though most of them were American aircraft)

    - The Minister was in Montreal at that point and had flown there in a government aircraft as he was planning to go to Toronto after his meeting. Ironically, the meeting was a major gathering of members of ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization. He was the host minister and was giving the welcome speech.

    - Nobody had a lot of information at that point and he got on the phone to talk to his Deputy Minister (the highest ranking civil servant in the Department) and they decided that all aircraft currently in the air should continue to their destination but that nobody should be allowed to take off. Unfortunately, that included his own aircraft and he got into a van with his staff and started to drive back to Ottawa, about a 2 ½ hours away.

    - Cell phones were still new but they had two of them and he was able to make decisions while on the drive to Ottawa. It turned out that there were some decisions that only the Minister could legally make and he had to do so verbally. It would seem that there were other decisions that were necessary but nobody was certain if even the Minister had legal authority to do so. The Deputy was a lawyer and she thought it was OK so he made these decisions but it was pretty clear that he was going to make the needed decisions even if he didn’t have legal authority

    - With a couple of hundred aircraft flying towards Canada on both coasts they had only minutes to make and transmit the decisions, otherwise aircraft could start to run out of fuel.

    - The Department of Transport (Known now as Transport Canada) had a 24 / 7 emergency crisis room and they got a team together in a very short time to manage things. This included the military, the Mounted Police (our federal police), the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and interestingly, the US ambassador.

    - They decided that all incoming aircraft would land in Eastern Canada, mostly in the provinces of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia because they did not know about the security situation on the incoming aircraft and they were afraid that if they let the planes fly to Toronto or Montreal, somebody could crash one in the downtown area and kill huge numbers of people. A lot of the planes ended up in the small town of Gander whose population of 10,000 almost doubled in a couple of hours. In the West almost 40 aircraft were diverted to Vancouver

    - For security reasons they made everybody stay on board until they could get the military to fly a lot of customs, immigration and security people to Gander, Halifax and a few other places from Montreal and Toronto. It was rough on the passengers who were aboard for 18 hours but they were not going to take any security risks given just what had happened in NY and Washington.

    - A lot of people assumed that US airspace would be open in a few hours but in fact it was closed for several days and in Gander at least, virtually all the townspeople took strangers into their homes for the duration.

    - One incident that I had never heard of before was that a Korean airliner was thought to have been hijacked over Alaska and was being escorted by a couple of US fighters and not responding. It crossed into Canadian airspace and the Canadian government authorized the US Airforce to continue their escort into Canada until they were able to force the plane to land in Whitehorse in the Yukon territory. Turned out to be a transponder problem along with translation issues

    - The Government did a port mortem on the response and decided that some changes in regulations were needed to better cover off emergencies. The Minister said that normally it can often take a year or two to do the consultations and write and pass the regulations. He said it all got done in two weeks.

    All in all it was a very interesting lunch.
  • togor
    Banned
    • Nov 2009
    • 17610

    #2
    The night of 9/11 my daughter's soccer league didn't cancel their games. It was a cloudless sky and not an aircraft anywhere. I remember thinking it would never be like this again once the planes returned to the sky. A buddy got stranded out east and it took him 3 days to get home by bus.

    Comment

    • Mark in Ottawa
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 1744

      #3
      Sadly that afternoon was the only time that my adult daughter ever called me at work. She is in the insurance business and had worked for two companies, both of which had large offices in the WTC. She had dealt with people in both towers who got killed.

      Comment

      • S.A. Boggs
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 8579

        #4
        I had no idea of how this played out that day, thank you Canada for the assistance rendered in our hour of need.
        Sam

        Comment

        • oscars
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 551

          #5
          I remember that 9/11 was a very clear day in DC and I was looking out of a window in my lab in a building in suburban Maryland. It was so clear that I could see the roof of Cole Field house at the University of Maryland and then the dome of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. At a greater distance, I saw the Washington Monument and some heavy, black smoke coming from a point to the right of the monument (my viewpoint). This was about 1030 AM as I heard a news report that a plane had hit the Pentagon about 930 AM and that the smoke I saw was from that event.

          Comment

          • Vern Humphrey
            Administrator - OFC
            • Aug 2009
            • 15875

            #6
            My youngest daughter was working in Manhattan that day. They closed down everything, and she walked down to the ferry landing and hitched a ride with the ambulances headed for New Jersey, then walked to her apartment.

            Comment

            • RED
              Very Senior Member - OFC
              • Aug 2009
              • 11689

              #7
              - When the American FAA closed down all air traffic in the US and forbade any aircraft from entering US airspace, they did so without any consultation, apparently including consultation with other US agencies and definitely not with Canada. Also with no real thought about the aircraft that were in the air and on their way to the USA
              WOW!!!! The U.S. is a no good MF'r because we defended ourself without the consent of the Canadians.

              Comment

              • togor
                Banned
                • Nov 2009
                • 17610

                #8
                Originally posted by RED
                WOW!!!! The U.S. is a no good MF'r because we defended ourself without the consent of the Canadians.
                Leave it to Red to stink up an otherwise civil thread. The point was that inbound aircraft from Europe needed somewhere to land, and the Canadians stepped up to safeguard the thousands of souls that happened to be far enough westbound on the North Atlantic air routes when 9/11 went down, despite the fact that most of these flights were not bound for Canada.
                Last edited by togor; 05-04-2019, 01:41.

                Comment

                • Mark in Ottawa
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 1744

                  #9
                  Red. It wasn't a question of needing the Canadian Government's permission to defend themselves. It was a question of giving the Canadian Government and air traffic controllers some time to decide just how to handle an unexpected influx of several hundred aircraft and thousands of people, some of whom might have been dangerous. It was a question of thinking about the corollary effects of a decision and taking appropriate actions to minimize any negative effects. For example, had the two agencies been able to discuss this, it might have been possible to safely route some of the aircraft to American Air Force bases where they could land securely.

                  Comment

                  • Vern Humphrey
                    Administrator - OFC
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 15875

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mark in Ottawa
                    Red. It wasn't a question of needing the Canadian Government's permission to defend themselves. It was a question of giving the Canadian Government and air traffic controllers some time to decide just how to handle an unexpected influx of several hundred aircraft and thousands of people, some of whom might have been dangerous.
                    Well, that's the point. At that time, no one knew how many aircraft terrorists had hijacked -- there might have been a dozen more flying to their targets at 550 mph. Quick action was required. As a Supreme Court justice said, "It is wrong to expect mature reflection in the face of an upraised knife."

                    Comment

                    • Mark in Ottawa
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 1744

                      #11
                      This Wikipedia article lists where the 238 planes landed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellow_Ribbon

                      Most of the airports are in Atlantic Canada and a couple are on the West Coast or in the Arctic

                      Comment

                      • Clark Howard
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 2105

                        #12
                        I and my crew were caught in the middle of this crazy day. We ended up parked on a taxiway at Halifax for the rest of the day and half the night before we were allowed to disembark. It was very strange living at the bitter end of the news string while the world caught up with the reality of what had happened. I will always be grateful to Air Canada for providing accommodations for the crew, the people of Halifax for going out of their way to make the MANY visitors feel welcome and secure, as well as the RCMP for their masterful management of an overwhelming situation. I received many orders and requests from my airline operations over four days, ALL of which proved to be useless and misleading. However, the Local Corporal of the RCMP was well-informed and quite willing to tell the truth when we needed information. The City of Halifax and the people of Canada will always be remembered as first class in my book. Regards, Clark

                        Comment

                        • S.A. Boggs
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 8579

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Clark Howard
                          I and my crew were caught in the middle of this crazy day. We ended up parked on a taxiway at Halifax for the rest of the day and half the night before we were allowed to disembark. It was very strange living at the bitter end of the news string while the world caught up with the reality of what had happened. I will always be grateful to Air Canada for providing accommodations for the crew, the people of Halifax for going out of their way to make the MANY visitors feel welcome and secure, as well as the RCMP for their masterful management of an overwhelming situation. I received many orders and requests from my airline operations over four days, ALL of which proved to be useless and misleading. However, the Local Corporal of the RCMP was well-informed and quite willing to tell the truth when we needed information. The City of Halifax and the people of Canada will always be remembered as first class in my book. Regards, Clark
                          This is the Character of Canada.
                          Sam

                          Comment

                          • dryheat
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 10587

                            #14
                            It's kind of a joke with Canadians. They say- we should probably be a little meaner, but it just isn't in us.
                            If I should die before I wake...great,a little more sleep.

                            Comment

                            Working...