Deaths in Childbirth

[togor]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/h...y-deaths-.html

The same people who want to give women no choice at all about pregnancy (no contraception, no RU486, no abortions) also want to nuke Obamacare and Medicaid. They'll tell you fake stories about healthy 8 month fetuses being diced into little bits but turn a blind eye to needlessly high mortality rates. I guess as long as someone dies in childbirth, their God doesn't mind.

To me their mindset is exactly the same as the gun banning extremists. No small victory will ever be enough. But they also know that there needs to be some number of "fallen" women in their conception of the world, so that men can sow their wild oats before entering into Holy Matrimony. I suppose that's like gun banners admitting that some security guards might need a gun. Oh, and both are OK with exceptions for the very wealthy too. The super rich can keep their guns, and if a daughter or wife needs an abortion or birth control, there's always a way.

[PWC]

Where's Billy Goat Gruff when he's needed?

[RED]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/h...y-deaths-.html

The same people who want to give women no choice at all about pregnancy (no contraception, no RU486, no abortions) also want to nuke Obamacare and Medicaid. They'll tell you fake stories about healthy 8 month fetuses being diced into little bits but turn a blind eye to needlessly high mortality rates. I guess as long as someone dies in childbirth, their God doesn't mind.

To me their mindset is exactly the same as the gun banning extremists. No small victory will ever be enough. But they also know that there needs to be some number of "fallen" women in their conception of the world, so that men can sow their wild oats before entering into Holy Matrimony. I suppose that's like gun banners admitting that some security guards might need a gun. Oh, and both are OK with exceptions for the very wealthy too. The super rich can keep their guns, and if a daughter or wife needs an abortion or birth control, there's always a way.

More BS lies from the agitator in chief. "no contraception, no RU486, no abortions..." Nobody that I know has ever come out saying we should ban condoms, birth control pills, IUD's, or other birth control methods... Not one time not ever and the number of mothers dying in childbirth is 1,000 times less than full term, live babies that being murdered.

Lie, lie, lie... twist and turn, hate and burn is what some call fun.

[Vern Humphrey]

Where's Billy Goat Gruff when he's needed?

I've asked myself that question several times.

I don't read what's-his-face's posts, but is he claiming that more women die of childbirth than there are abortions? Given that we've had about 60 MILLION abortions in this country since Roe vs Wade, that's one hell of a lot!!

[S.A. Boggs]

I've asked myself that question several times.

I don't read what's-his-face's posts, but is he claiming that more women die of childbirth than there are abortions? Given that we've had about 60 MILLION abortions in this country since Roe vs Wade, that's one hell of a lot!!

An ounce of truth to flavor the ten pounds of lies is the National Socialist way of speaking.
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

An ounce of truth to flavor the ten pounds of lies is the National Socialist way of speaking.
Sam

Exactly right -- Goebbels perfected that technique.

[jdmcgrath]

togor is on the money with the birth control thing. Gun banners is a stretch but maybe. Definitely pushing a rock uphill.

[Art]

It is a slander that anti abortion people oppose birth control. That might have been true in a limited number of cases (mostly Catholics) 100 years ago but not today. I don't know a single anti abortion person who opposes birth control.

Another slander is that aborted children are unwanted, also untrue, perhaps they are not wanted by the birth mother but there are plenty of people so desperate for a child that they pay large amounts of money to adopt over seas.

Finally, there is the idea that anti abortion activists are Racists. I saw an example of this yesterday in the case of a Penn congresscritter who makes a habit of harassing protesters at abortion mills and calling them racists. That's because the term racist has become the label of choice for all not on the liberal bandwagon regardless of the issue. Black folks are 13% of the population but account for 28% of aborted fetuses. No racist would be very unhappy with that stat. Because of those numbers, those Black radicals who are not on the Democrat payroll claim that abortion in this country is a form of genocide against people of color and they may have something. Among them are Dick Gregory, Jesse Jackson (at least in his younger days,) Louis Farrakhan, and the entire Black Panther Party. After all one of Hitler's favorite people was Margaret Sanger .

The fact is that the United States and Canada have the most lenient laws on abortion outside of China. All of the folks who complain about the U.S. being out of step on health care should research the policies of other countries, most of which have strict limits on when discretionary abortions can be performed and many of which require the concurrence of two doctors and/or counselling before the procedure can be performed. France and Switzerland are examples of countries with more restrictive abortion laws than the United States. Germany's laws are an anti abortion dream scenario, though Germany's situation is a bit unique historically.

Finally, Togor, on the late term abortion issue, I strongly advise you to watch "Gosnell." Old Kermit might have been the most extreme example of an abortionist specializing in late term abortions but he certainly isn't the only one. The left wouldn't even allow advertising time in the MSM for the movie. Of course they wouldn't cover his murder trial either except on the very back pages, either, which tells you something. The Pennsylvania authorities wouldn't even inspect his clinic because they didn't want to harass an abortionist.

One comparison is correct. To a pro abortion advocate, abortion rights are the hill they are absolutely committed to "die" on. No retreat no surrender, not one step back. That is the one area in which they can be compared to gun rights advocates. Well maybe that's a little much, pro gun right activists are probably more flexible.

[togor]

Art if any egg is a potential person then any action which interferes with God's plan for that egg is an affront to his will. No birth control, end of story. To observe that the antis are prepared to die on their hill (I agree with you) means that this position is part of the deal. In the end, it's about a social order that ordains a God-given role for host bodies, whether they're believers or not. Wildly contrary to the US Constitution.

[Vern Humphrey]

Finally, there is the idea that anti abortion activists are Racists.

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, openly stated that her intention was to virtually eliminate Blacks. You can't hardly get more racist than that.

[Art]

Art if any egg is a potential person then any action which interferes with God's plan for that egg is an affront to his will. No birth control, end of story. To observe that the antis are prepared to die on their hill (I agree with you) means that this position is part of the deal. In the end, it's about a social order that ordains a God-given role for host bodies, whether they're believers or not. Wildly contrary to the US Constitution.

What a bunch of unmitigated garbage. First, if that is the case celibacy is contrary to the will of God. Second, the Constitution does not necessarily reflect the will of God. Finally, any actual reading in depth of Christian scriptures makes it clear that human sexuality is a good in itself apart from procreation. In fact through the whole collection of writings, from Genesis to Revelation, the relationship between God and his people is consistently expressed (metaphorically of course) in terms of the sexual relationship between a man and a woman.

[Vern Humphrey]

What a bunch of unmitigated garbage. First, if that is the case celibacy, or chastity until marriage is against God's will. Second, the Constitution does not necessarily reflect the will of God.

Give it up -- you're dealing with a narcissist. He believes reality has to conform to whatever he says it is.

[S.A. Boggs]

Give it up -- you're dealing with a narcissist. He believes reality has to conform to whatever he says it is.

Did he ever show reality or just delusional socialist thinking?
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

Did he ever show reality or just delusional socialist thinking?
Sam

I've never seen any appreciation of reality on his part -- how he gets to the bathroom on his own is beyond me.

[togor]

What a bunch of unmitigated garbage. First, if that is the case celibacy is contrary to the will of God. Second, the Constitution does not necessarily reflect the will of God. Finally, any actual reading in depth of Christian scriptures makes it clear that human sexuality is a good in itself apart from procreation. In fact through the whole collection of writings, from Genesis to Revelation, the relationship between God and his people is consistently expressed (metaphorically of course) in terms of the sexual relationship between a man and a woman.

Art,

First, what you call garbage is in fact the official position of a good many Catholic prelates and fundamentalist churches. Contrary to your assumptions I am not unschooled in the testaments, and I know that there is plenty of room for, shall we say, a more modern view of the social order. But you know as well as I that many in these times reject modern thinking. Don't shoot the messenger here.

Second, where is the line then if not at the egg? If you can only speak for yourself, then please do. I've tried to get Vernon to entertain the idea that the host body has any rights at all, and he staunchly refuses. If that doesn't make people sit up and take notice, then something is wrong. Vernon is of course Catholic, as am I.

My own view: privately we are free to make our own choices. Publicly we have to guard against curtailing the freedom of others for reasons of our religious views. That there is a tension, no doubt.