75 America Colleges Offer Black Only Graduation

[dryheat]

40K-60K all but 5% are probably support costs. Lawyers ect. There's money to made on the "poor". Big money. We love everyone. There's a food drive every other month. It's on t.v. Basketball players show up. Don't mean to be cynical because there are folks who are physically helpless, but, screw the hungry.
$15 an hour is plenty. There's something about painting that does draw in the convicts and alcoholics. Not neccesarily greed. But good business sense. It's Phoenix. Right To Work. Loads of cheap Mexican(and convict, and druggy,alky)labor. It's not NY. He probably didn't go to Perdue either so he didn't take any of the high end painters boss classes.

[JohnPeeff]

I can't remember who it was, maybe Sandpebble, saying he couldn't get reliable help to "screw in a few toilets" and he was paying over minimum wage . Out here in Democrat/Union controlled California "screwing in a few toilets" is called "plumbing"and union plumbers get $144hr. I just got my bill, 8hrs labor $1152 plus $175 misc. copper, fittings, valves.

[togor]

I can't remember who it was, maybe Sandpebble, saying he couldn't get reliable help to "screw in a few toilets" and he was paying over minimum wage . Out here in Democrat/Union controlled California "screwing in a few toilets" is called "plumbing"and union plumbers get $144hr. I just got my bill, 8hrs labor $1152 plus $175 misc. copper, fittings, valves.

How much of the $144/hr actually ends up in the pocket of the plumbers? Same deal with auto mechanics. If a shop rate is $85/hr, it's a safe bet that the mechanic isn't grossing $170k/year. He's seeing 1/3 of that (and he knows it.)

Yeah I know, fixed income guys want stuff to be cheap. But if you want to improve lives in this country, stabilize families, etc., then support policies that improve pay for working people.

Growing wealth inequality is one of the verboten topics here, along with the environment. But these are important topics out there in the real world, whether retirees like it or not.

The thing is, these subjects will be coming back. If Trump is determined to kick the legs out from under the cheap Chinese import machine, and this appears to be the case, then US workers will be more in demand, and among the things we will not be exporting as much is our industrial pollution.

[lyman]

Well, that's the point, isn't it? You have to look at the total population of poor people to determine if what you're doing is working. Cherry picking -- pointing to a few individual success, and ignoring the big picture -- really proves nothing.

apparently I was not able to convey to you that I can see that forest, but have also worked amongst the trees

[lyman]

$144 an hour is shop billing,

that includes the plumber's wage by hr,
amortized cost of the vehicle
tires/fuel/maintenance (in addition to the cost of the vehicle)
admin fees for the person at the dispatch desk, supply desk, whatever, including a cut for the boss,


and those parts are usually at a very high margin

[togor]

At this link one can find mean hourly wages for the states, and how they've changed over a decade.

https://www.governing.com/gov-data/wage-average-median-pay-data-for-states.html

I find no surprise that Squire Humphrey's state has the 49th lowest hourly wage, ahead of Mississippi, which is usually last in these kinds of lists. It makes sense that someone who believes in keeping other people's wages as low as possible, through governmental means if necessary, should settle in a state where that is the common policy of both government and business.

[oscars]

According to Forbes.com, it ranks 47th in educational achievement. Moral of story, keep ‘me stupid, get ‘em cheap.

[S.A. Boggs]

apparently I was not able to convey to you that I can see that forest, but have also worked amongst the trees

Some of us stood back and watched those who's arms were around the tree screaming help to get out of the forest!
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

apparently I was not able to convey to you that I can see that forest, but have also worked amongst the trees

Then do not measure the health of the forest by a handful of trees. The fact that a FEW people get out of the poverty cycle is not so important as the percentage who do not. We cannot call our social programs successful if society as a whole is not better off.

I recall Bob Bechtel (who was the token liberal on FOX) saying, "You don't understand. Poverty programs aren't meant to END poverty, but to make people more comfortable in their poverty." We've sunk trillions into poverty programs and we aren't playing to win, but only to tie?!?

Someone has brought up that poverty is an industry -- there are people who make a lot of money off those programs! For example, here in Mountain View, Arkansas, there is a subdivision of subsidized housing. If you ask why, the answer will be "Because there are a lot of poor people here."

Well, duh! WHY are they poor? Because there are no jobs. Now Arkansas is in about the bottom 6% economically, and this county is in the bottom third in Arkansas. Why the hell would you house poor people in an area like this? House them somewhere they can get jobs!!

This isn't helping them, this is the poverty trap!

Now the REAL reason that subdivision is there is because someone got the land cheap, and did a deal with the government where he is guaranteed over 80% occupancy. He doesn't give a rat's a$$ about the poor -- he's making MONEY.

[togor]

The poor are great business because they spend it all. Want to help the poor get out of poverty? Help make it possible for them to accrue capital. A lot easier said than done because that ability has extrinsic and intrinsic sources. But make no mistake, many businesses from landlords to liquor companies to drug companies to drug cartels to pawn shops to payday loan outfits and so on have figured out how to turn a handsome profit separating the poor from what money they have. Vernon likes to focus on cutting social programs because that's in line with his low wage + low tax ethos. But working poor are still poor.

[S.A. Boggs]

Then do not measure the health of the forest by a handful of trees. The fact that a FEW people get out of the poverty cycle is not so important as the percentage who do not. We cannot call our social programs successful if society as a whole is not better off.

I recall Bob Bechtel (who was the token liberal on FOX) saying, "You don't understand. Poverty programs aren't meant to END poverty, but to make people more comfortable in their poverty." We've sunk trillions into poverty programs and we aren't playing to win, but only to tie?!?

Someone has brought up that poverty is an industry -- there are people who make a lot of money off those programs! For example, here in Mountain View, Arkansas, there is a subdivision of subsidized housing. If you ask why, the answer will be "Because there are a lot of poor people here."

Well, duh! WHY are they poor? Because there are no jobs. Now Arkansas is in about the bottom 6% economically, and this county is in the bottom third in Arkansas. Why the hell would you house poor people in an area like this? House them somewhere they can get jobs!!

This isn't helping them, this is the poverty trap!

Now the REAL reason that subdivision is there is because someone got the land cheap, and did a deal with the government where he is guaranteed over 80% occupancy. He doesn't give a rat's a$$ about the poor -- he's making MONEY.

When one asks our Socialist friends what THEY have done to help one get's a, "Gee, I don't know isn't this something the government is suppose to do? I mean, gee, I pay taxes for this to happen." Or aske how many illegals THEY are willing to be personally responsible and again meet with stony silence. Peebles needs workers, yet has one heard of his plan to legally employ those who want to come across our border. All hat and no herd as usual!
Sam

[lyman]

Then do not measure the health of the forest by a handful of trees. The fact that a FEW people get out of the poverty cycle is not so important as the percentage who do not. We cannot call our social programs successful if society as a whole is not better off.

I recall Bob Bechtel (who was the token liberal on FOX) saying, "You don't understand. Poverty programs aren't meant to END poverty, but to make people more comfortable in their poverty." We've sunk trillions into poverty programs and we aren't playing to win, but only to tie?!?

Someone has brought up that poverty is an industry -- there are people who make a lot of money off those programs! For example, here in Mountain View, Arkansas, there is a subdivision of subsidized housing. If you ask why, the answer will be "Because there are a lot of poor people here."

Well, duh! WHY are they poor? Because there are no jobs. Now Arkansas is in about the bottom 6% economically, and this county is in the bottom third in Arkansas. Why the hell would you house poor people in an area like this? House them somewhere they can get jobs!!

This isn't helping them, this is the poverty trap!

Now the REAL reason that subdivision is there is because someone got the land cheap, and did a deal with the government where he is guaranteed over 80% occupancy. He doesn't give a rat's a$$ about the poor -- he's making MONEY.

Vern,

you are a Gov't guy, right?

try to take a step back, big deep breath and remember some of us actually work (or worked) in economically depressed areas,
and have seen it first hand,,


by the way, wanna talk money,,

rent a center type places, (sure you can rent to own this TV and pay 10x's or more than it is worth)

and the car title or similar paycheck cashing companies,



and, halfway houses, esp those that are for the mentally handicapped,
that is some really big business in this area,

rent a house (or buy, they do both here),
convert it to dorm style living, (but add bathrooms if they can) and bring in some handicap,

housing either paid by the parents or guardians, but usually gov't assistance,
food is mostly food stamps, or now called SNAP,

and minimal staff requirements,

I've met a few folks that work in them, and my brother knows someone who runs a group of them,


all you need is a handful of CNA's (not a big payroll expense) admin, psych on call (or likely the owner) and a bus or 2,,,

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern,

you are a Gov't guy, right?

No, I am not. I am a soldier -- a profession that is actually held accountable.

t

ry to take a step back, big deep breath and remember some of us actually work (or worked) in economically depressed areas,
and have seen it first hand,,

And I LIVE in such a community -- and have for many years. And I have seen how ineffective the "work" is -- in fact, much of it is counterproductive.

You still haven't shown us the beef -- has the poverty rate been significantly lowered? Are there FEWER people on welfare? Are there FEWER children living in single-parent homes?

[lyman]

No, I am not. I am a soldier -- a profession that is actually held accountable.

t

And I LIVE in such a community -- and have for many years. And I have seen how ineffective the "work" is -- in fact, much of it is counterproductive.

You still haven't shown us the beef -- has the poverty rate been significantly lowered? Are there FEWER people on welfare? Are there FEWER children living in single-parent homes?

you ran for congress, correct?



and where did I say or you say I needed to provide you some beef? I never stated the level was lowered, just that some folks actually worked to get off it, and have succeeded,



what were your plans if you had been elected to change all this?

[Vern Humphrey]

you ran for congress, correct?

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China.

and where did I say or you say I needed to provide you some beef? I never stated the level was lowered, just that some folks actually worked to get off it, and have succeeded,

And I pointed out that "some folks" is meaningless with so many others ae trapped in poverty.

what were your plans if you had been elected to change all this?

Quite extensive. For example, I would have raised the FICA tax and put the surplus into Personal Retirement Accounts, similar to 401ks. In a generation or so, everyone who worked would retire self-funded and many would be actually wealthy.

I pushed true Medical Savings accounts.

I advocated the Three Paper Solution for improving education.