True?

[togor]

Faulty logic 101.

Example #1
"Some leftists are Antifas"
"Some Antifas use street violence"
"Some Nazis were leftists"
therefore,
"All leftist are Nazis"

Example #2
"Some white supremacists admire Hitler"
"Donald Trump received votes from white supremacists"
therefore,
"Donald Trump admires Hitler"

The first is clearly false. Those mainline Protestants who protested Vietnam and now in their twilight years oppose Trump are as far from Nazis as you'll ever get. The second may in fact be true but the logic is faulty. If we are to fairly conclude that Trump admires Hitler, then we'll need to get info through a better channel.

[togor]

Togor, I'm beginning to question a few things here...

Can Boggs actually pass a driver's test? Because he's all over the road in every answer.

You know how if you try too hard to live in the 10-ring, the groups open up? That's what I think is happening with Boggs. Vernon on the other hand knows exactly what he's doing. He knows he's spouting BS, but like the former candidate that he is, he accepts it's just what you do sometimes. Still, willfull blindness comes with a cost.

[S.A. Boggs]

36643301_948726448663629_1301498867350503424_n.jpg50604195_2036809183021086_6730656757233745920_n.jpg
Not much difference from 80 years ago and now is there? Those who forget/deny history are condemned to repeat it as "our" National Socialists are now!
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46199[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]46200[/ATTACH]
Not much difference from 80 years ago and now is there? Those who forget/deny history are condemned to repeat it as "our" National Socialists are now!
Sam

Sam, have you ever visited a holocaust site?

[togor]

Sam, have you ever visited a holocaust site?

That would mean leaving the country. I'd settle for him visiting the DC museum, but that ain't gonna happen either. Dunning-Kruger strikes again.

[clintonhater]

That would mean leaving the country.

Not if he went to Waco.

[Vern Humphrey]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46199[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]46200[/ATTACH]
Not much difference from 80 years ago and now is there? Those who forget/deny history are condemned to repeat it as "our" National Socialists are now!
Sam

Understand that history is often repeated because some people WANT to repeat it.

[lyman]

Closest thing would be anarchists from before the Great War*. The comparison to highly regimented Germans is laughably ignorant. But the people making the comparison are dug in now and will never concede. So it is with some mountain folk. But to keep on, they have to overlook a lot that is bad on their side of the political spectrum.

*Worth noting that many of the harsh social criticisms of the anarchists were proven to be prescient given the great slaughters of 1914-18.

Vernon also knows that the books are full of references putting the Nazis on the right side of the political spectrum. Both contemporary and post war references. He knows this because he read them. So what is going on here? Why does he think he can rewrite the histories and give them to the left? My best guess is that it's nothing more than a debate trick, figuring this is an easy crowd. Does he have a better reason? Maybe someone will quote this and we will see if he rises to the task.

so,

you are saying the antifa are just a bunch of kids just being kids?,

or that they are anarchist that are trying to get propaganda of the deed to work?

or do you think the antifa (or maybe their handlers) are trying to get a revolution like the Spanish Revolution?

[JohnPeeff]

First of all I have visited a Holocaust site, Bergen-Belsen where Ann Frank died and I don't know what this has to do with this Antifa discussion. I'll ask Togor, Roadkingtrax, et al, have you seen Antifa in action? I have, Berkeley, San Francisco. They act like the Nazi Brownshirts. How do you think they vote, Democrat or Republican? Does this mean all Democrats are Antifa supporters? no, but right now I think they are more of a danger than any white supremists who have a march once a tear that no one comes to except protesters then they go back into their hole.

[lyman]

"Our" Democratic Socialists will never accept the handle of Nazi, much like some of the rapist won't accept that reality either. "She liked it" or "It was her fault dressing that way, not me!" is often what is said. I have explained many times the similarities of German National Socialism and Democratic National Socialism to no avail. Their "but, but" syndrome kicks in or "they" are just too blind to accept the similarities of the two.
Regardless the similarities will continue to stand as well as the moniker of Nazi to their disdain. It is akin to the homosexuals trying to bastardize the word "gay" to reconfigure what "they" are trying to brand themselves.
Sam

read this,

it may help you follow the convoluted path Togor is taking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anarchism

[Roadkingtrax]

Understand that history is often repeated because some people WANT to repeat it.

In the case of Sam, he harks back to it like a parrot who watched a History Channel documentary. He reduces Nazism down to a quippy anecdote, without the maturity to understand what he is saying. The point, John, is if Sam had seen a few things face to face...instead of riding Vern's obfuscations, he'd realize just how dishonest his approach is.

[S.A. Boggs]

read this,

it may help you follow the convoluted path Togor is taking


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anarchism

Interesting, thank you!
Sam

[togor]

so,

you are saying the antifa are just a bunch of kids just being kids?,

or that they are anarchist that are trying to get propaganda of the deed to work?

or do you think the antifa (or maybe their handlers) are trying to get a revolution like the Spanish Revolution?

I said closest thing, in that both the antifas and anarchists were primarily against something more than for it. The match isn't exact. In the case of the antifas, it seems straightforward. They are antifacists by their name, and associate facisim particularly with the racial ideologies which everyone but Vernon understands was the root of the movement. To my experience we only hear about them when they show up to counter-protest against some white supremacist group. Yes some of them smash things, and that is to be condemned, but not all of them do that, and one can hardly blame them, for example, for showing up in Charlottesville to oppose people marching with actual swastikas.

When challenged on the historical absurdity of saying leftists are Nazis, all we ever get are the points of a Nazi platform in the early 20's, a decade before they ever reached power. Well, what about the industrialists? No one who knows anything about history is going to accuse Gustav Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach, wife of Bertha Krupp, herself the granddaughter of Alfred Krupp, of being a leftist. No way Gustav Krupp takes the plunge and bankrolls the Nazis in the last election, at a time when their coffers were bare, if he had any doubts about what it would mean. 25 points notwithstanding. Vernon knows he would lose a straight up debate on this subject, that it would be an outright massacre. So he hides. One thing I don't do here is hide.

[rayg]

In the case of Sam, he harks back to it like a parrot who watched a History Channel documentary. He reduces Nazism down to a quippy anecdote, without the maturity to understand what he is saying. The point, John, is if Sam had seen a few things face to face...instead of riding Vern's obfuscations, he'd realize just how dishonest his approach is.

You seem to have an on going personal hate against Sam as it's noticeable on the boards that you are always singling him out and knocking and criticizing him. Just curious what caused this? Ray

[Roadkingtrax]

You seem to have an on going personal hate against Sam as it's noticeable on the boards that you are always singling him out and knocking and criticizing him. Just curious what caused this? Ray

Thanks for sharing my post, in the hopes he might see it.

His attempts to misuse, and misappropriate history in petty name calling attacks warrant a response. Does anyone here not have a right to speak in opposition to baseless and contemptuous claims?

Certainly you've made the effort to highlight MAGA hat attacks, do you afford those individuals the ability to defend against their assailants?