National suicide for dummies

[barretcreek]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-14/idiots-guide-destroying-your-country-six-easy-steps

Well on the way. JFK wanted to get no.1 under control and look what happened to him.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island". A true horror story.

[togor]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...six-easy-steps

Well on the way. JFK wanted to get no.1 under control and look what happened to him.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island". A true horror story.

Trump wants to get the Fed under control so that it will do the opposite of what "Tyler Durden" says he wants. So someone is confused somewhere along the line. Going back to the Gold Standard would be like ripping that computer-controlled MFI system out and going back to a carburetor. Sure you could do it, but it better not get too hot outside, or too cold, or too humid, get bad gas, or run it at altitude, or pass a tailpipe check.

[S.A. Boggs]

Trump wants to get the Fed under control so that it will do the opposite of what "Tyler Durden" says he wants. So someone is confused somewhere along the line. Going back to the Gold Standard would be like ripping that computer-controlled MFI system out and going back to a carburetor. Sure you could do it, but it better not get too hot outside, or too cold, or too humid, get bad gas, or run it at altitude, or pass a tailpipe check.

Your logic confuses me...money and carbs???
Sam

[free1954]

don't bad mouth carbs, you can't fix electronic fuel injection on the side of the road.

[togor]

Your logic confuses me...money and carbs???
Sam

"Tyler" wants to go back to the Gold Standard, a 19th-century technology for issuing and backing currency. Trump wants the production cost of fiat money to be lowered even further. These two positions could not be further apart. The current Fed sits in the middle and so gets criticized from both sides. The analogy to carburetors/fuel injection is a way of illustrating how hard it can be to go back to obsolete technologies when life has adapted to maximally exploit new ones--in this case, modern methods of finance and managing the money supply.

If we're allowing thread drift, modern fuel injection is a marvel which had helped extend the life of many engines. And it's much more reliable than carburetion systems. Fun fact: in the Battle of Britain, carbureted Hurricanes and Spitfires would lose power if they pulled slight negative G's, whereas their fuel-injected Messerschmitt opponents would not. Eventually this deficiency was remedied but it made for an important tactical advantage for the Luftwaffe.

[S.A. Boggs]

"Tyler" wants to go back to the Gold Standard, a 19th-century technology for issuing and backing currency. Trump wants the production cost of fiat money to be lowered even further. These two positions could not be further apart. The current Fed sits in the middle and so gets criticized from both sides. The analogy to carburetors/fuel injection is a way of illustrating how hard it can be to go back to obsolete technologies when life has adapted to maximally exploit new ones--in this case, modern methods of finance and managing the money supply.

If we're allowing thread drift, modern fuel injection is a marvel which had helped extend the life of many engines. And it's much more reliable than carburetion systems. Fun fact: in the Battle of Britain, carbureted Hurricanes and Spitfires would lose power if they pulled slight negative G's, whereas their fuel-injected Messerschmitt opponents would not. Eventually this deficiency was remedied but it made for an important tactical advantage for the Luftwaffe.

I agree on BOB, and I am against fiat money. Gold/silver has many use's in daily life regardless of technology, the drawback is their weight. Paper is more convenient to use, the drawback is that it is only paper. Historically one need look no further then the Weimar Republic of Germany and inflation. Gold/silver are exchange items only good for what the other person has to exchange. You have an ounce of gold, I have ten pounds of beans do I trade with you?
Sam

[togor]

I agree on BOB, and I am against fiat money. Gold/silver has many use's in daily life regardless of technology, the drawback is their weight. Paper is more convenient to use, the drawback is that it is only paper. Historically one need look no further then the Weimar Republic of Germany and inflation. Gold/silver are exchange items only good for what the other person has to exchange. You have an ounce of gold, I have ten pounds of beans do I trade with you?
Sam

The problem with the Gold Standard is that the money supply is constrained not by economic activity, but by the availability of metal. What happens Sam if an economy might naturally expand but is constrained by lack of money in circulation to support that expansion?

[Clark Howard]

The differences between precious metals and paper money only come into play when the economic/political situation is unstable, or somehow disrupted. No matter what the medium of exchange, the value of money is dependent upon the population's confidence in the productive capacity of the country, and the economy. The problems we are now experiencing with money stem from the Congress refusing to keep tax rates low enough to encourage productivity growth, while spending more money than they have to spend. Not to mention the printing of money to placate client populations who refuse to work or educate themselves. The laws of economics require no courts or police to enforce them.

[Vern Humphrey]

I agree on BOB, and I am against fiat money. Gold/silver has many use's in daily life regardless of technology, the drawback is their weight. Paper is more convenient to use, the drawback is that it is only paper. Historically one need look no further then the Weimar Republic of Germany and inflation. Gold/silver are exchange items only good for what the other person has to exchange. You have an ounce of gold, I have ten pounds of beans do I trade with you?
Sam

Gold and silver are a check on inflation -- as the value of the paper dollar falls, the value of the silver dollar rises in comparison. If you remember the introduction of the Johnson Clunkers -- silver money rapidly disappeared, because it was worth more than paper.

[S.A. Boggs]

The differences between precious metals and paper money only come into play when the economic/political situation is unstable, or somehow disrupted. No matter what the medium of exchange, the value of money is dependent upon the population's confidence in the productive capacity of the country, and the economy. The problems we are now experiencing with money stem from the Congress refusing to keep tax rates low enough to encourage productivity growth, while spending more money than they have to spend. Not to mention the printing of money to placate client populations who refuse to work or educate themselves. The laws of economics require no courts or police to enforce them.

+1, What Clark said so brilliantly!
Sam

[togor]

Gold and silver are a check on inflation -- as the value of the paper dollar falls, the value of the silver dollar rises in comparison. If you remember the introduction of the Johnson Clunkers -- silver money rapidly disappeared, because it was worth more than paper.

And yet we note that at the root of Trump's current dispute with the Fed (notice I am not bashing Trump in this thread, just explaining his position, with which one can agree/disagree at their own choosing) is interest rate policy. The Fed is on guard against inflation, and last year was raising interest rates. Trump says that inflation is not an issue (which continues to be true) and wants the Fed to continue a policy of easy money. President Trump would like to see a resumption of the quantitative easing program that Candidate Trump so derided. This is all true and easily confirmed if people don't want to take my word for it.

- - - Updated - - -

+1, What Clark said so brilliantly!
Sam

Actually there are multiple inaccuracies in what Clark wrote but why bother pointing them out since what he wrote sounds like the sort of thing that would be really nice if it were that simple.

[S.A. Boggs]

And yet we note that at the root of Trump's current dispute with the Fed (notice I am not bashing Trump in this thread, just explaining his position, with which one can agree/disagree at their own choosing) is interest rate policy. The Fed is on guard against inflation, and last year was raising interest rates. Trump says that inflation is not an issue (which continues to be true) and wants the Fed to continue a policy of easy money. President Trump would like to see a resumption of the quantitative easing program that Candidate Trump so derided. This is all true and easily confirmed if people don't want to take my word for it.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually there are multiple inaccuracies in what Clark wrote but why bother pointing them out since what he wrote sounds like the sort of thing that would be really nice if it were that simple.

Enlighten us please and footnote please.
Sam

[togor]

Enlighten us please and footnote please.
Sam

I'll do one. You're an educated man, no doubt believe in continuing education as a way of keeping the mind sharp in retirement, so you can fill in the others.

The problems we are now experiencing with money stem from the Congress refusing to keep tax rates low enough to encourage productivity growth, while spending more money than they have to spend.

What does that even mean?

What "problem with money" and how does that correlate to tax rates and productivity growth? Businesses improve productivity primarily through capital expenditures, for which they can claim depreciation. If Clark is pointing to some huge decades-old flaw in how US businesses are allowed to depreciate such expenses, I would very much like to hear it. Since you think it's a brilliant statement, Sam, how about you explain it to me in plain language?

[S.A. Boggs]

I'll do one. You're an educated man, no doubt believe in continuing education as a way of keeping the mind sharp in retirement, so you can fill in the others.



What does that even mean?

What "problem with money" and how does that correlate to tax rates and productivity growth? Businesses improve productivity primarily through capital expenditures, for which they can claim depreciation. If Clark is pointing to some huge decades-old flaw in how US businesses are allowed to depreciate such expenses, I would very much like to hear it. Since you think it's a brilliant statement, Sam, how about you explain it to me in plain language?

Yes, but I asked first!
Money is anything that the other person will accept in trade. First one has to set a value of "something" for sale, barter and then set a value for the other offering. The rarer the first commodity, the more of the second. Now go beyond that state to commercial ventures, taxes, capital gain/losses then one is in a new set of rules. On the gold standard one had a set of the first, off the gold standard then the 2nd offering could float to a value set by the first.
Currently U.S. currency is set by the "Full faith and credit of the United States" nothing more. We have "gold" in Fort Knox, a promise of a metal. The value fluctuates by what we hold and what the gold can be traded for in our dollars against other currency. Now what happens if that other country declines our paper and demands an equal amount of gold for said paper? We transfer to that country to hold our credit line, don't/can't and now our paper is worthless on the international trading floor.
Can this happen at home?
Sam

[togor]

Actually I asked the first question in post #7 so I'll ask it again: what happens if the economy wants to grow faster than the gold-backed money supply will allow? Until you understand the answer to this question, nothing else will make any sense to you.