El Paso shooter

[JohnPeeff]

Unfortunately I think you are right.

[JohnPeeff]

My post above was a reply to Togor's post that the police would probably shoot a armed good guy mistakenly.

[p246]

Identifying an active shooter from a citizen trying to engage the suspect will always be problematic, it is a xxxx show. We even have killed our own off duty, or plain clothes officers. That being said I’m still going to try if I’m caught off duty in one. Once over start screaming concealed carry over and over, find cover, holster and wait. We as a society need to find an answer to these. Personally the news media posting their pics and throwing thier name out only gives them the fame they want. This POS was wearing ear pro, he planned to live and wanted to hear all about his minutes of infamy. This isn’t the only issue but it is one that drives me nuts.

[togor]

The other potential tragedy would be if two or more concealed carry holders mistakenly engaged each other while the primary shooter continues unabated.

[togor]

One in Dayton too. Details have not emerged.

[Art]

One in Dayton too. Details have not emerged.

The first reports say 9 dead and "dozens" wounded. They also indicate the bad guy was wearing body armor. The area the shooting was in was sort of a night club district which is probably why the police got there in less than a minute and subsequently killed the "perp" so it could have been a whole lot worse.

[togor]

The first reports say 9 dead and "dozens" wounded. They also indicate the bad guy was wearing body armor. The area the shooting was in was sort of a night club district which is probably why the police got there in less than a minute and subsequently killed the "perp" so it could have been a whole lot worse.

Yes. Police had engaged shooter in approximately one minute, which is outstanding. But it also shows how much damage can be done by a shooter with first-mover advantage and sufficient firepower. It's starting to look as though some in the younger generation do not take their 2A responsibilities seriously.

[Art]

Yes. Police had engaged shooter in approximately one minute, which is outstanding. But it also shows how much damage can be done by a shooter with first-mover advantage and sufficient firepower. It's starting to look as though some in the younger generation do not take their 2A responsibilities seriously.

Criminals of any sort don't take their 2nd Amendment rights seriously because they don't take anyone else's rights seriously, especially psychopaths and sociopaths.

[togor]

Criminals of any sort don't take their 2nd Amendment rights seriously because they don't take anyone else's rights seriously, especially psychopaths and sociopaths.

All too true. But a casual relationship to firearms from their video games or watching downloads of the NZ shooting or something else seems to have opened a door to young minds, to say "hey, this is a thing one can do." Some of the shooters themselves are telling us that this is political. They're talking about real-world issues in their manifestos, not blue people from the planet Zyglo giving them telepathic commands. Someone can be political and a psychopath at the same time.

[S.A. Boggs]

Criminals of any sort don't take their 2nd Amendment rights seriously because they don't take anyone else's rights seriously, especially psychopaths and sociopaths.

There is more then one reason and only the shooter knows why. Psychopathic people and criminal minds are wired different then those who won't do this. Abundance of guns? If gasoline "bombs" were used then what? Nails, tide, kero, gas, water with two other unnamed ingredients make a nice IED. How are you going to stop this? It is impossible to ban everything when the weapon to ban is the person who is doing the evil act.
Mental health needs to be brought forth with the questioning of the surviving murder. Is it violent gaming, lack of a positive home life, drugs, plastic lining in food cans, aluminum cans...what?
Sam

[clintonhater]

Some of the shooters themselves are telling us that this is political. They're talking about real-world issues in their manifestos, not blue people from the planet Zyglo giving them telepathic commands. Someone can be political and a psychopath at the same time.

Of course they can. They can see their country not merely being invaded, but invaded--and this is by far the most intolerably maddening aspect of the border situation--with the support, sympathy, & collusion of traitors within their own country, eager to sacrifice our national sovereignty in the hope of future political advantages. It's enough to drive some of those with pre-existing mental problems completely over the edge, and obviously, that's exactly what it HAS done!

[Roadkingtrax]

Togor, sadly this guy in El Paso is aiming for his "John Brown 1856" moment. The alleged manifesto has a lot to say from his perspective, right or wrong will depend on the reader. Ugly stuff if you ask me.

How many agree with it enough to act and put into jeopardy the constitutional rights? These people need to be ID'd quickly and dealt with.

[Art]

Political terrorism in the U.S. by the numbers.

I did a little research and its revealing. I only used terrorist acts that are definitely political so idiots like the Las Vegas Concert shooter and other narcissists, grievance collectors, and day of infamy types aren't included. Nor are radicals who launch protests that can result in violence but don't claim that as the principle motivation. It also includes plots that were foiled by the authorities, most of those were Islamic since that's where most of the money for intelligence and surveillance goes. Most of these people seem to have been "self radicalized." Islamists also have the highest "body count" due to "9/11." So since the year 2000 acknowledging that this probably isn't a perfect list:

Islamic - 33

Right wing extremists/white supremist - 25

Radical left/communists/anarchists 12

Black extremist/black nationalist - 2

Jewish extremist - 2

[Art]

Of course they can. They can see their country not merely being invaded, but invaded--and this is by far the most intolerably maddening aspect of the border situation--with the support, sympathy, & collusion of traitors within their own country, eager to sacrifice our national sovereignty in the hope of future political advantages. It's enough to drive some of those with pre-existing mental problems completely over the edge, and obviously, that's exactly what it HAS done!

While your statement has some validity I don't think it applies in this case.

I live in a Texas community much like Allen though not quite as affluent, median family income is about $10.000.00 less but still up there. The population is 80% non Hispanic whites and almost all crime is by juveniles. I saw this type regularly here, especially when I did my teaching thing. The spoiled kids, kids who's parents throw stuff at them instead of parenting and/or can't compete in a community in which a person is very much what he does, looks like, or possesses. There are a lot of suicides for these reasons including kids you would probably never guess, as well as drug and alcohol abuse and a lot more violence than you'd expect. I know a kid (19 at the time out of high school) who basically got a pass for caving in another boy's head with a tire iron at a drinking party in his parents mansion while they were out of town. The victim didn't die but had substantial brain injury. Parents with enough money to hire the best in lawyers and connected people who said "but he really is a good kid" help with that a lot. Most of all of that held below the surface because of the parents influence unless somebody actually dies or its a novelty story like "The Queens of Armed Robbery," a group of drill team girls who paid for their drug habits by sticking up convenience stores. Goes to show a rich doper can steal just like a poor doper. I can't dignify this guy who is almost certainly a rich kid living in a bubble by attributing any sort of really thought out motive by this puke. The political motivation in his rant for mowing down a bunch of brown people of whom the vast majority were United States Citizens was more an excuse than a reason. My devalued $.02 worth.

[togor]

Of course they can. They can see their country not merely being invaded, but invaded--and this is by far the most intolerably maddening aspect of the border situation--with the support, sympathy, & collusion of traitors within their own country, eager to sacrifice our national sovereignty in the hope of future political advantages. It's enough to drive some of those with pre-existing mental problems completely over the edge, and obviously, that's exactly what it HAS done!

The thing is, CH, is that your rhetoric isn't that far off from these manifestos. Maybe you don't overheat when you engage in this idea space, but some clearly do. Or, if it's as Art suggests, that a disaffected youth found a convenient excuse for committing mayhem, at some level it doesn't matter. The overheated invasion and white replacement rhetoric is getting people killed, and putting 2A rights in the crosshairs as a pressing anti-terrorism issue.