BATFE

[S.A. Boggs]

To sell firearms a business must have a FFL and a background check right? Same for explosives as well a Federal License. Why not one for alcohol and tobacco too. Just think of the money generated and how people can now feel safe again in their communities.
Sam

[togor]

I think in the case of booze and smokes it's more about the excise tax for raising revenue. For booms the tax was used less for revenue and more for regulation of the activity.

[blackhawknj]

Yes, require a driver's license for sales of alcohol and MJ. A hit comes up-a DUI-either no sale or at least an alert.

[Sandpebble]

To sell firearms a business must have a FFL and a background check right? Same for explosives as well a Federal License. Why not one for alcohol and tobacco too. Just think of the money generated and how people can now feel safe again in their communities.
Sam

Well believe it or not Boggs I'll stand with you on this .... however, you will have to accept that Mothers Against Drunk Driving proved to be a positive

Numbers of alcohol related deaths have dimished and MADD has something to do with it ....

Is there any one here willing to make claim that the "complaining" Mother of a child killed by a drunk is suffering a "knee jerk" reaction to drunk driving and alcohol ...? of course not .

Difference being is that death by a drunk driver is usually stupidity

Mass shootings are pre meditated... and unfortunately on the rise

[Allen]

I always found it ironic that states sold alcohol to motorist then arrested the same people if they were caught driving after drinking '"their" product. Only in recent years have other sources been allowed to sell alcohol (by the bottle). It's like the state officials are attempting to bait people to collect taxes on sales, then fines for the arrest. The hell with anyone's safety. While ID is checked when in doubt they don't check for mental stability or criminal records relating to alcohol abuse by the purchaser.

Tobacco products can often be purchased through vending machines.

[togor]

So Allen has trouble parsing the concept of OWI legislation? It figures.

[lyman]

I have not seen a cigarette vending machine in many many years,



Drunk Driving is at an all time low here in VA, however MADD has little to do with it,

the biggest contributor to the reduction has been UBER/Lyft,

[Vern Humphrey]

I have not seen a cigarette vending machine in many many years,



Drunk Driving is at an all time low here in VA, however MADD has little to do with it,

the biggest contributor to the reduction has been UBER/Lyft,

Isn't it funny how it you attack the PROBLEM -- drunk DRIVING -- instead of related factors, you can solve the problem.

[togor]

Isn't it funny how it you attack the PROBLEM -- drunk DRIVING -- instead of related factors, you can solve the problem.

Intrigued. Separate the drunks from their car keys, before the act. Analogy to gun violence is what, exactly?

[Roadkingtrax]

I have not seen a cigarette vending machine in many many years,



Drunk Driving is at an all time low here in VA, however MADD has little to do with it,

the biggest contributor to the reduction has been UBER/Lyft,

A $25 Uber is way cheaper than a $10k DUI, and the risk of injury or death to others.

[lyman]

Intrigued. Separate the drunks from their car keys, before the act. Analogy to gun violence is what, exactly?

guns, like cars, are tools,


both operated by humans,


you prosecute the driver, if a person drives drunk, and restrict the ability to drive etc etc but do nothing about the vehicle, nor the access (vs age limits) on the alcohol

when guns are involved, folks (media, antigunners etc) act like the gun did all the damage, and should be banned, no word on the why or how to fix it (other than banning guns )


of course, driving is a priviledge, firearm ownership is a right

[togor]

guns, like cars, are tools,


both operated by humans,


you prosecute the driver, if a person drives drunk, and restrict the ability to drive etc etc but do nothing about the vehicle, nor the access (vs age limits) on the alcohol

when guns are involved, folks (media, antigunners etc) act like the gun did all the damage, and should be banned, no word on the why or how to fix it (other than banning guns )


of course, driving is a priviledge, firearm ownership is a right

Oh but see you missed the important part--the emphasis on separating the two, inebriated human and car keys, before the act. If someone is going to make a connection between drunk driving and gun crime, then that has to be part of the discussion. Vern made the connection (implied), you picked it up. So....how are you going to keep crazies and guns from getting together and acting? What messages are you going to put out into society on a par with the unceasing "don't drink and drive" ads, of which everyone except maybe Allen approves?

Think about it. This quote by Vernon

Isn't it funny how it you attack the PROBLEM -- drunk DRIVING -- instead of related factors, you can solve the problem.

If applied to guns, may or may not still be true, but it is definitely anathema to the forum. I have to wonder if a) Vernon didn't think it all the way through or b) has a secret liberal streak from long ago that shows every once in awhile.

[lyman]

close

a person can still drink too much,, and still get caught, happens every day, just that the cost factor has caused some to think and use uber, (a good thing)

however, gun related,

how may perps in the past were know mental cases (Parkland,,, Sandy Hook) and yet managed to find guns (yes, Sandyhook guy was supported and enabled by his mother, who he killed)


however hippa and mental health laws prohibit some reporting, and limit some too,

and where does that start,, or end?? that is the problem we (As a society) should be addressing,, not banning a thing that percentage wise is small, compared to the number used ,,



so how many drunk drivers or vehicles are cited each year, percentage wise, vs murders (mass or otherwise, take out the suicides)?

[togor]

The argument of similarity between OWI and illegal gun violence comes from Vernon, not me. Or maybe you? But not me. So I'm not going to try to defend it, and it's on you guys to elaborate. The implication of Vernon's quote was that if we tackled gun violence with the same focus as OWI, then we'd get results. If asked for specifics, and if he bothered to engage, he would give us yet another list of ways to lock people up *after* they commit the gun crimes. But most mass shooters are not criminals or doing anything illegal pretty much right up to the moment they pull the trigger. So lock them up how? And I also point to the many PSAs that are out there about avoiding mixing alcohol and car keys. Alcohol producers even sponsor messaging to encourage people to enjoy responsibly. Will we start seeing S&W, Remington and Rock River running PSAs about not shooting irresponsibly? I doubt it. This is why I thought Vernon's message would fall flat, and it has. And he has declined to back it up.

PS: an interesting observation about the privilege of driving versus the right of firearms ownership. We will take away both, if circumstances require, and one is much more easily restored to felons who have paid their debt to society. So if we look at it from the perspective of restoration, driving is treated as more of a right than firearms ownership in that it is much more of a priority to allow ex-cons to drive again than to own guns. Just an observation.