Religious iberals vs. religious conservatives

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  • lyman
    Administrator - OFC
    • Aug 2009
    • 11269

    #16
    Originally posted by togor
    Jefferson's last public letter, written shortly before he died. After a lifetime of reflection, this is where he end up. I challenge people to read it.



    Conservative by 2020 standards? Hardly.
    I read it,

    a rather lengthy paragraph, written in the parlance of the time, to say we (he and others) did great things, and the country has continued,, but sorry, I cannot make it,


    apparently you are putting a 2019 spin on it?


    Respected Sir

    The kind invitation I receive from you on the part of the citizens of the city of Washington, to be present with them at their celebration of the 50th. anniversary of American independance; as one of the surviving signers of an instrument pregnant with our own, and the fate of the world, is most flattering to myself, and heightened by the honorable accompaniment proposed for the comfort of such a journey. it adds sensibly to the sufferings of sickness, to be deprived by it of a personal participation in the rejoicings of that day. but acquiescence is a duty, under circumstances not placed among those we are permitted to controul. I should, indeed, with peculiar delight, have met and exchanged there congratulations personally with the small band, the remnant of that host of worthies, who joined with us on that day, in the bold and doubtful election we were to make for our country, between submission or the sword; and to have enjoyed with them the consolatory fact, that our fellow citizens, after half a century of experience and prosperity, continue to approve the choice we made. may it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the Signal of arousing men to burst the chains, under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings & security of self-government. that form which we have substituted, restores the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. all eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. the general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view. the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of god. these are grounds of hope for others. for ourselves, let the annual return of this day forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them.

    I will ask permission here to express the pleasure with which I should have met my ancient neighbors of the City of Washington and of it's vicinities, with whom I passed so many years of a pleasing social intercourse; an intercourse which so much relieved the anxieties of the public cares, and left impressions so deeply engraved in my affections, as never to be forgotten. with my regret that ill health forbids me the gratification of an acceptance, be pleased to receive for yourself, and those for whom you write, the assurance of my highest respect and friendly attachments.

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    • J.B. Books
      Banned
      • Sep 2019
      • 92

      #17
      Some people will take something from along time ago and try to impose it today. What was then is often not what is now, just like wine. Wine put up can either turn out to be nice or vinegar. Our Constitution has stood the test of time with Amendments as needed. The Bill Of Rights was written with the memory of what the British Army did to the writers of our Constitution. How often does one have to worry about quartering of troops today?
      Historically it is nice to look at then and now, what does it mean other then possible enlightment?
      JB

      Comment

      • Vern Humphrey
        Administrator - OFC
        • Aug 2009
        • 15875

        #18
        Originally posted by bruce
        Re: Jefferson. He was not particularly Conservative in that era, nor were many of the Founding Fathers. Their very act of rebellion against the crown marked them as beyond the pale of conservatism that in that era sided w/ the crown. Two hundred forty-three years later, it is doubtful that the Founding Fathers would be entirely welcomed by those who generally consider themselves Conservatives, and it is absolutely certain that he would not be welcomed by those who consider themselves the brightest and best flashlights of liberalism. Sincerely. bruce.
        Some very respected historians (and the Army Special Warfare Center) regard the American Revolution as a "Conservative Revolution." It's goal was to conserve the rights the people already had.

        - - - Updated - - -

        Originally posted by J.B. Books
        The Bill Of Rights was written with the memory of what the British Army did to the writers of our Constitution. How often does one have to worry about quartering of troops today?

        JB
        No need to worry about it -- it's unconstitutional.

        Go here to see what a government that has the power to quarter troops can do with that power. https://www.britannica.com/event/Massacre-of-Glencoe

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        • togor
          Banned
          • Nov 2009
          • 17610

          #19
          Lyman, the money passage for me:

          that our fellow citizens, after half a century of experience and prosperity, continue to approve the choice we made. may it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,)
          TJ wasn't pulling any punches. He genuinely believed in the idea of individual liberty, for all of mankind. It's a breathtaking vision for the time. It makes me a little sad that our current foreign policy speaks so glowingly of the actors on the world stage who share this ideal the least.

          Oh and Kudos to Bruce for his excellent posts on this thread. Well said, sir.
          Last edited by togor; 09-12-2019, 05:14.

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