The Voting Equivalent To Red flag Laws

[togor]

Much concern has been expressed around here at the prospect of legal gun owners landing on Red Flag lists at the hand of unnamed parties or government officials. In Ohio, the same thing happens to the tune of about 1 voter in 5 when the state purges its voting rolls.

So again, treat gun rights and voting rights consistently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/u...ter-purge.html

[lyman]

seems like Ohio did to, or tried to do the right thing,

and it sounds like the individual counties need to get more streamlined in how they report inactive voters,


btw, do you realize you edit just about every post?

[togor]

seems like Ohio did to, or tried to do the right thing,

and it sounds like the individual counties need to get more streamlined in how they report inactive voters,


btw, do you realize you edit just about every post?

Edits: yes! Typos from mobile phone access.

Trying to do the right thing, but having a 20% mistake rate on the list. You'd be okay with that stat for a gun no buy list?

[lyman]

Edits: yes! Typos from mobile phone access.

Trying to do the right thing, but having a 20% mistake rate on the list. You'd be okay with that stat for a gun no buy list?

what is the over under on no buy list now?

[togor]

what is the over under on no buy list now?

Not the point.

The question is....would you be okay with a 20% false positive on the no-buy list? Assuming not. Guessing even 1% net false positives would be too many. Just a guess, feel free to correct. Would false negatives bother you?

The vote is considered a better defense of liberty than the bullet. And yet people who reject most forms of gun control embrace vote control enthusiastically. But ask them to explain the difference and it's a struggle.

[lyman]

you over dramatize a lot,,,


vote control, really?

ohio, by the article, does the right thing and come to find out there are errors,

and just so happens, some of the worst errors are by Democrats,,

so what are they doing??? sounds like they are correcting the situation in some way or another, or at least acknowledging there is a problem,



there are false negatives in everything, (and false positives,,,,)

[bostonbound]

Treat gun rights and voter rights equally. Good idea.

Allow a person to be reported as a menace to society and take away his voter rights without due process.

If a gun purchaser comes up on the no but list, allow him to purchase a "provisional firearm" until the list can be painstakingly verified.

Sarcasm intended.

[togor]

Votes and guns. Make one heavily controlled, the other not. Liberals and conservatives both agree. I see it different.

- - - Updated - - -

Treat gun rights and voter rights equally. Good idea.

Allow a person to be reported as a menace to society and take away his voter rights without due process.

If a gun purchaser comes up on the no but list, allow him to purchase a "provisional firearm" until the list can be painstakingly verified.

Sarcasm intended.

Yeah but it happens whether you meant it sarcastically or not. Voter suppression is the GOP playbook.

[lyman]

did you read the article?

eta , and how are votes being suppressed?

[togor]

did you read the article?

eta , and how are votes being suppressed?

How are votes suppressed? It's easy.

1. Make a list of people to be dropped and put 40,000 names on it who don't belong there.

2. Send the list to a few organizations--but make no attempt to contact the people on the list directly--in a giant spreadsheet dump, as a fig leaf effort at "transparency".

3. Set the following eligibility rule for people who have been dropped but don't know it until the next time they go to vote. This from www.legislature.ohio.gov:

When you have completed your voter registration application, please review it carefully for completeness and accuracy. You may either personally deliver, or send by U.S. Mail, your voter registration application to a county board of elections or the Secretary of State's office. You, or another person acting on your behalf, also may deliver your application to one of the offices listed above, but you should ensure your application reaches the office of a board of elections or the Secretary of State no later than the voter registration deadline, the 30th day before the election at which you want to vote.

Look at Trump's margins in WI, MI, and PA in the 2016 election, and the strategic importance of Ohio in Presidental elections, and tell me that every little bit of voter suppression doesn't matter.

Or say that the rules and procedures Ohio uses for voting were exactly the same as those for gun purchases, including purging dead, moved, etc. from the buy list and having 40,000 bad names on it. Would you or would you not consider that bureaucratic meddling in suppression of gun rights? They have eyes but they cannot see.

[lyman]

so a group of moderate repubs tries to do the right thing (no way to know what time limits they had or when they decided to do this)

This year, a group of elected officials in the state, mostly all moderate Republicans, tried to answer the concerns with an experiment of their own: Rather than purge the voter rolls behind closed doors as had been done in the past, the government released the full list of those to be removed this summer, and gave the list to advocacy groups. The groups said they found the list was riddled with errors.

and,


previous policies, or rather varied contracting issues caused this,

In one case, a data mistake from an outside firm meant a large number of people’s names were set to be knocked off. Ohio’s 88 counties each used a different process of removing people from the rolls, an immediate source of headaches for officials trying to compile a statewide list.

would you rather grandpa, who died in 1956, be allowed to vote?




surely the system is screwed up, likely has been since Moby Dick was a minnow,

but betcha it has helped, and hurt, both sides

[Vern Humphrey]

When I was an Election Commissioner, we launched several investigations of voter fraud. Here's one we found: Registered voters are classified as Active and Inactive Voters. Active Voters are those who voted in the last federal election. Inactive Voters did not. If an Inactive Voter skips the next election, he is dropped from the rolls, on the assumption that he has died or moved. Inactive Voters make up from one third to one half of the voter rolls.

We found one county that had zero Inactive Voters. Guess why?

[togor]

You're quote is revealing--the reform was to at least publish the list. Before that, *surprise!* Ben Johnson discovers on election day that he's not registered.

Criteria for dropping someone include spotty election participation (maybe they died) or some suggestion that the person might have moved. Criteria more likely to hit an urban renter than a suburban homeowner.

Has grandpa voted? No one says that the deceased shouldn't be removed from the rolls, but no one has proved that dead votes happen. They talk about it a lot but repeating a thing doesn't make it more or less true. Nonetheless the possibility is used to cover the process that scrubs people who are most certainly not dead from the voter rolks. And Grandpa probably buys more guns more often than he votes, if you want to think about it that way.

[lyman]

You're quote is revealing--the reform was to at least publish the list. Before that, *surprise!* Ben Johnson discovers on election day that he's not registered.

Criteria for dropping someone include spotty election participation (maybe they died) or some suggestion that the person might have moved. Criteria more likely to hit an urban renter than a suburban homeowner.

Has grandpa voted? No one says that the deceased shouldn't be removed from the rolls, but no one has proved that dead votes happen. They talk about it a lot but repeating a thing doesn't make it more or less true. Nonetheless the possibility is used to cover the process that scrubs people who are most certainly not dead from the voter rolks. And Grandpa probably buys more guns more often than he votes, if you want to think about it that way.

not sure why you bring up firearms purchase each time you post about voting?

you comments about the quote suggest you may not have even read the article you linked......

[togor]

not sure why you bring up firearms purchase each time you post about voting?

you comments about the quote suggest you may not have even read the article you linked......

Why are firearms and voting linked? The ballot box and the cartridge box? You've apparently never heard of the 4 boxes of liberty. Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

If that is news to you then why reply to the thread at all?