The Voting Equivalent To Red flag Laws

[Allen]

not sure why you bring up firearms purchase each time you post about voting?

Without democrats the subjects gun rights, freedoms, laws, our Bill of Rights, the 10 Commandments, welfare, obamacare, illegals, sanctuary cities, voting fraud, and the well being of our constitution would never come up nor be an issue.

[lyman]

Why are firearms and voting linked? The ballot box and the cartridge box? You've apparently never heard of the 4 boxes of liberty. Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

If that is news to you then why reply to the thread at all?

geez,,,,,,,you are stretching it a bit,,,,
that bungee cord is gonna snap any second,,

[togor]

geez,,,,,,,you are stretching it a bit,,,,
that bungee cord is gonna snap any second,,

You say that, but you've already admitted, on the subject of climate change, that some things simply fail to register with you. This topic appears to be another one of those things. BUT...sooner or later someone is going to post a message about defending against Democrat tyranny by voting, and then maybe you'll see the connection.

[togor]

Here's a voting hypothetical for you, Lyman. Say one of the Dem billionaires, like Steyr or Bloomberg, organized a grass-roots campaign to change the NRA from the inside out, by joining, paying dues, and then voting in a reform slate. Unlikely but theoretically possible. The current board would see this coming and want to do something, right? The most likely thing would be to jigger the bylaws in such a way as to forestall the Liberal takeover.

That's the mindset that prevails on the right, as exemplified by some here--jigger the voting rules as much as possible to win elections without de-legitimizing them. Whadabout the left? Well to first order they have numbers on their side, so an open election system that facilitates turnout favors them naturally. Clark's posts notwithstanding, it's the GOP that cheats these days in NC, not the Democrats.

I come at this as a rules guy. To me the win-at-all-costs ethos is the true enemy of the republic, not conservatism or liberalism. The times being what they are, and Trump being what he is, my problem currently is with the GOP. But if I live long enough that could change.

[lyman]

you are stretching it again,

failing to register with me??

your arrogance is a bit much this time,

how about I don't see it the way you do, which means we a difference of opinion,,

and not typing anything in a condescending manner that may be construed to be an insult,


can you do that?


unless of course, you have some proof that someone, somwhere (in the US) is preventing folks from voting, or making them vote a certian way, at gunpoint....


or are you really advocating that a person go thru a background check when they vote,, like a gun purchase?

[togor]

Hey you've made it clear the points I'm making don't get anywhere with you. That's not arrogance at all to point that out. Seems more like going after the messenger on your part because you don't like the message.

To your question, no, I favor legal gun buying and legal voting, on generally even footing, for reasons given. And I have no problem with outreach. In my view the republic is best served by liberal voting laws. If liberal gun laws accompany that without crime or loss of life, then better. (Casting a vote and pulling a trigger are not exactly the same thing, as one can be much more lethal than the other.)

But overall my attitude is get lots of eligible citizens voting and let the political factions compete. If one group seeks to preserve some sort of purity that limits their appeal, they shouldn't get power by squeezing the rules. To me that is the healthiest way forward.

[Sandpebble]

and not typing anything in a condescending manner that may be construed to be an insult,

Construed to be an insult.... by who?..... all of us... or a moderator

[Allen]

Voting "Red Flags".

All voting should be suspended until a legal system can be devised (like the 3rd world nations use) without fraud and corruption. All authorities over voting rules should be investigated and arrested accordingly. This sabotage of America has been going on far too long.

It seems all too simple for me.

1. Legal citizens should be required to provide proof such as a real birth certificate to be counted on the census.
2. Only citizens should have a SS# and only one.
3. Voters register to vote with their one and only SS#
4. Voters should be required to show ID at time of voting.

Of course hillary won the popular vote. She didn't even have to run for office.

[togor]

Some provocative edits:

Gun Buying "Red Flags".

All gun buying should be suspended until a legal system can be devised (like the 3rd world nations use) without fraud and corruption. All authorities over gun buying rules should be investigated and arrested accordingly. This sabotage of America has been going on far too long.

It seems all too simple for me.

1. Legal citizens should be required to provide proof such as a real birth certificate to be counted on the census.
2. Only citizens should have a SS# and only one.
3. Buyers register to purchase with their one and only SS#
4. Buyers should be required to show ID at time of purchase.

And it goes without saying that the government will retain a record of all purchase activity in order to preserve the integrity of the system.

Satire aside, Allen is proposing a National ID. Papers, please? Worse, he wants to suspend elections until they can be re-organized along lines he likes. Even Lyman would admit (I hope) that Allen is making my point for me. Anyhow I like my way better.

[lyman]

Hey you've made it clear the points I'm making don't get anywhere with you. That's not arrogance at all to point that out. Seems more like going after the messenger on your part because you don't like the message.

To your question, no, I favor legal gun buying and legal voting, on generally even footing, for reasons given. And I have no problem with outreach. In my view the republic is best served by liberal voting laws. If liberal gun laws accompany that without crime or loss of life, then better. (Casting a vote and pulling a trigger are not exactly the same thing, as one can be much more lethal than the other.)

But overall my attitude is get lots of eligible citizens voting and let the political factions compete. If one group seeks to preserve some sort of purity that limits their appeal, they shouldn't get power by squeezing the rules. To me that is the healthiest way forward.

you assume your points, and only your points are valid,,


arrogance,



take a breath, realize not everyone sees thru your eyes,

re the voting,

should a person ID themselves to vote, or should an official just hand out ballots to everyone?

- - - Updated - - -

and not typing anything in a condescending manner that may be construed to be an insult,

Construed to be an insult.... by who?..... all of us... or a moderator

to all,

- - - Updated - - -

Some provocative edits:



And it goes without saying that the government will retain a record of all purchase activity in order to preserve the integrity of the system.

Satire aside, Allen is proposing a National ID. Papers, please? Worse, he wants to suspend elections until they can be re-organized along lines he likes. Even Lyman would admit (I hope) that Allen is making my point for me. Anyhow I like my way better.

we already have a system to check those who want to make a purchase,

it's not perfect, and never will be,


your point,,, again, arrogance, it is all about you

[Gun Smoke]

your point,,, again, arrogance, it is all about you

+1

Note too that he quoted Allen but changed the words voting to guns to try to make a feeble effort to distract from the way things are in elections to his anti-gun agenda. He's hoping no one will compare the 2 different quotations.

[dryheat]

geez,,,,,,,you are stretching it a bit,,,,
that bungee cord is gonna snap any second,,

-You're in over your head Pea.

-See, a man with any sense at all can tell when it's sundown, without you whackin' that bell.

Bolivar : General Robert E. Lee freed the slaves. I can whack it if I want to.

Gus McCrae : It was Abe Lincoln that freed the slaves, Bol, not General Lee.

Pea Eye Parker : He didn't free Mexicans, anyway, Bol. It was... Americans he freed.

Gus McCrae : You're in over your head, Pea. It was a bunch of Africans Abe Lincoln freed. No more American than Call here.

Just because I love that movie. Yeah, the message is a little vague. Togor or Lyman?

[lyman]

+1

Note too that he quoted Allen but changed the words voting to guns to try to make a feeble effort to distract from the way things are in elections to his anti-gun agenda. He's hoping no one will compare the 2 different quotations.

that was his point, (Sub guns for vote)


it is also why I quote him when I reply (usually) since togor is the king of edits

- - - Updated - - -

-Ooh, an edit

LOL

[togor]

+1

Note too that he quoted Allen but changed the words voting to guns to try to make a feeble effort to distract from the way things are in elections to his anti-gun agenda. He's hoping no one will compare the 2 different quotations.

Okay, again, treat firearms and voting rights on equal footing as defenders of liberty. I've been consistent on this, and no one so far has explained why this is a bad idea. But clearly people don't like the idea. Why?

The edits to Allen's text were to show how awful the policy would be if applied to gun rights. But applied to voting rights it's okay?

So a question--why should firearms rights be liberal, and voting rights be restrictive, if both are considered important to defend liberty, with voting rights in fact the more important of the two?

I'm attacked for holding this position, but so far no one has explained what is wrong with it.

[Gun Smoke]

First off no one has to explain anything to you. No one has to answer your liberal comments.

Though the words vote, voting and associated words come up 39 times in our constitution the implied wording is that voting is more of a privilege than a right. The second amendment that the democrats hate so much ends with the clause "this RIGHT shall not be infringed". It is the ONLY amendment our forefathers felt was important enough to end with such a quotation.

Voting can be much more damaging or rewarding to America than gun ownership provided the right candidate is on the ballot. However this is almost never the case. This is why fraud and corruption should be enforced to the fullest.

If you don't like guns don't buy them if you are even old enough.

Squawking about your personal liberal beliefs on a conservative gun forum may not be the best way for you to burn up your seemingly ample time.

Since background checks are already done on firearm purchases (and this is for a right not a privilege) and have been for many many years perhaps the same should be done for voter registration including IQ checks.