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A couple of asides:
After Sutherland Springs the State of Texas removed houses of worship from the list of prohibited locations for concealed carry. Definitely a good move that bore fruit in this case.
The press on this has been hysterical in one way. They can't get the church right. For a whole day the press reported that the shooting occurred during "Mass." Then they said it was a Baptist church. Both, as I noted above are wrong. It was a Church of Christ and any of you who are familiar with The Church of Christ (the no musical instruments Church of Christ) knows they don't want to be confused with either Baptists of Catholics. What makes if even more laughable is that "Church of Christ" is on the front of the church in huge block letters.Comment
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what is freedom to you ....
Wasn't blaming the "gun" Lyman ... just making a comment of our inability to keep that gun out of the hands of Loons .... heaven forbid we tread on their freedoms and rights.
Along those lines of freedom... sure, believe it or not I'm a believer ..... we can all carry guns because we are free men. Free to carry, possess and use to defend ourselves ....
but... and here is the "but" ..... now that it's becoming the norm to have to cary a fire arm at all times in this country .....even to Sunday Mass .... and now...
...now that there is a market for bullet proof back packs for our children to carry their books to school ..... I don't feel so free .
when I go somewhere that I feel is necessary to bring my gun .....I feel robbed of my freedom.... I might do it because I can ...but I don't feel freeComment
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Tell me again how victim disarmament works. How does keeping guns out of the hands of honest people protect them from armed criminals?Comment
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How come firearms are not allowed at the Supreme Court?Comment
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You mean, I assume, "why aren't civilians allowed to carry firearms in The Supreme Court?"
This thread deals with providing security for religious institutions that have been subjected to terrorist attacks. These houses of worship, as I said previously, often use their own designated armed members (civilians) who volunteer and are trained for this purpose. Since it is impractical to detail professional law enforcement officers to every single little tiny church; The State of Texas after Sutherland Springs removed houses of worship from the list of places prohibited from civilian firearms carry because of their vulnerability to attack allowing them to take steps to protect themselves.
With the purpose of the Texas law in mind:
1. The Supreme Court is protected by the Capital Police who are there 24/7. Other courts are protected by the U.S. Deputy Marshalls who are always there when courts are in session. In fact, U.S. Marshall's offices are almost invariably housed in Federal Court Houses.
2. Additionally, most courts, including most Federal courts prohibit firearms except by Baliffs who are Deputy U.S. Marshalls in the Federal System because prisoners are sometimes present.
3. Almost all Federal buildings have professional armed security on site when they are open for business, usually the U.S. Marshall's service uniformed personnel, or members of The Federal Protective Service.
Therefore, the carrying of firearms by civilians is not deemed necessary for security purposes.
Some here might not like those reasons but there they are.Last edited by Art; 12-31-2019, 10:09.Comment
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Thank you, Art. I will be curious to see if Vernon comments on this or lets it go. On its face the policy does not trust the public to do the right thing inside the courthouse. I believe the Secret Service has a similar policy with respect to high ranking officials in their protection.Comment
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It isn't just Churches of course. In Ohio school districts can use armed civilian staff carrying concealed for security if they are properly trained. Similar systems exist in other states including Texas, as a security option for school districts. I saw a video on the Ohio training and its intense. A suit that would have required these designated Ohio trained CHL staff/security personnel to have training equal to police officers was recently dismissed.
One of the instructors in this program tells the participants to remember they are "volunteering to take a bullet for their kids."
When it comes to school a designated police School Resource officer is probably the best choice but for a variety of reasons isn't always practical. The armed staff solution is a satisfactory way to deal with the shortage of security professionals.
Many business owners carry on their premises and/or allow their employees to carry for security purposes. I was talking to the manager of a western wear store near me and she said that she has told her staff if they want to carry on the premises they may, in fact she encouraged the practice.Last edited by Art; 12-31-2019, 11:01.Comment
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In the "No Good Deed goes Unpunished" department.
Apparently the bad guy killed in the Fort Worth church shooting had been fed by the congregation for quite a while. It seems he murdered these two men, and would have murdered more if he hadn't been stopped, because the church refused to give him cash.Last edited by Art; 12-31-2019, 11:03.Comment
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Ohio is two states, rural and urban. All of the large cities are Democratically controlled and have the government will protect you. Rural is just the opposite to this rational. I left a church and demonation back in 04 because of the pastors ban against crazies carrying guns IN HIS CHURCH. My family and I switched to Southern Baptist where the Deacon's have no problem with armed carry. I am part of our armed security and we could use more help in this. Christ instructed his follower's to go forth armed, I always do.
SamComment
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I have mentioned this before; but I recall Condoleeza Rice talking about the Second Amendment. When her community was threatened by white thugs following the Birmingham Ala. church bombing her father organized a group of armed men to protect the people. She said that this was "a militia under the 2nd Amendment. So are the people who joined together to provide security in this church in Ft Worth when they realized the threat posed by people who hate them. I think RKBA people should point this out whenever possible.
S.A.: I've listened to the fellow who organized and runs the security for the Ft. Worth Church of Christ. He's a retired police officer who runs a shooting range. He's very grounded, very highly skilled (he killed the murderer in that church,) The armed congregants who form their security team were already being alerted that the killer might be a problem when "the balloon went up." I bet he's going to be getting a lot of inquiries like yours.Last edited by Art; 12-31-2019, 02:56.Comment
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I watched what he said and understand his thinking. I walked a similar path had hopefully will not have to do what he did to save others. It is not pleasant to have to draw down on others and not something to want to do. Days afterwards one asks if one did the right thing in not pulling the trigger to end some form of oppression.
SamComment
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