USAF

[Major Tom]

When I was in the Army (1965-67) we were allowed mustaches as long as our photo ID showed it. As for long hair, it was sidewalls and crew cuts in our unit (18th Airborne and 2nd Field Force).

[Vern Humphrey]

Who is the "true" believer? The Muslum who go to mosque, and bow to Mecca 5 times a day and chant the Koran, or the terrorist that practices the Koran teaching of killing the infidel, or take him captive at every opportunity? Why didn't we see the "moderate" Muslims come out against the radical Muslim terrorists? Both moderate and radical use the same holy book, thier Koran. Do the moderates believe any less?

It's all Abraham and Sarah's fault. Abraham should have kept his sword sheathed.

Actually, moderate Muslims DO come out against terrorism -- but it doesn't get any press.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-dont-moderate-muslims_b_8722518

Immediately after the San Bernardino shootings, Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles, said, “The Muslim community stands shoulder to shoulder with our fellow Americans in repudiating any twisted mind-set that would claim to justify such sickening acts of violence.” Tahmina Rehman, president of Buffalo’s Women’s Auxiliary of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, criticized the shootings, noting that those who are truly faithful to the Quran live lives of peace and humility. Roshan Abbassi, an assistant imam at a San Bernardino mosque, said: “We are all against terrorism. ... We all want peace.” Saira Khan, the sister of the shooter, said, “I believe that that’s not Islam. Islam condemns killing or hurting of anybody. Any person.”

[sid]

The first attack on The World Trade Center was planned in a Mosque in New Jersey. Rudy Giuliani reported this.

[PWC]

I have seen some moderate Muslim rebuttal, and they do not get much press and I believe that is a function of the far left lame stream media. But if there was a general outpouring, there would be some coverage.

After 911, I saw a Muslim apologist saying how peaceful Islam is. I did find, on the I'net, a copy of the Koran (Quran) in english and found it too is divided into books just like the Bible. In the book of The Cow, it advocates extremely violent action against non-belivers of Islam. Several days after that, I tried to go back to that site and it was down. When it did come back up there was only prerecorded messages of a Mullah, I think. Kind of watching Billy Graham.

Check for yourself, copy and paste: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...2/cr_list.html

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)" 2:191-2

"Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them." 4:89

"Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded." 47:4

"Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die." 6:113

"If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom." 9:39 Is this the moderates? You have to remember, the moderates and radicals both use the same book.

And yes, I know the bible has violence and genocide. Look at Saul and Joshua and the promised land. But, I would rather believe a God's promises that history, archeology, and astronomy have verified. I know I'm painting with a wide brush here.

[Vern Humphrey]

I have seen some moderate Muslim rebuttal, and they do not get much press and I believe that is a function of the far left lame stream media. But if there was a general outpouring, there would be some coverage.

After 911, I saw a Muslim apologist saying how peaceful Islam is. I did find, on the I'net, a copy of the Koran (Quran) in english and found it too is divided into books just like the Bible. In the book of The Cow, it advocates extremely violent action against non-belivers of Islam. Several days after that, I tried to go back to that site and it was down. When it did come back up there was only prerecorded messages of a Mullah, I think. Kind of watching Billy Graham.

Check for yourself, copy and paste: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...2/cr_list.html

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)" 2:191-2

"Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them." 4:89

"Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded." 47:4

"Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die." 6:113

"If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom." 9:39 Is this the moderates? You have to remember, the moderates and radicals both use the same book.

And yes, I know the bible has violence and genocide. Look at Saul and Joshua and the promised land. But, I would rather believe a God's promises that history, archeology, and astronomy have verified. I know I'm painting with a wide brush here.

In all fairness, let me point out a "disbeliever" (Kiffir) is a Pagan -- usually a tribal African. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book" and not to be killed,

[togor]

The Koran says women get to heaven too but is vague on what awaits them there. An eternity of housework in a bad marriage? It isn't clear.

[PWC]

Vern - Never heard the term "People of the Book"....of course, there are many things I've never heard of.

"For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom." 4:160-1

"Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom." 5:73

"Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in?" 40:73

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern - Never heard the term "People of the Book"....of course, there are many things I've never heard of.

"For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom." 4:160-1

"Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom." 5:73

"Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in?" 40:73

And yet when Mohammed cleansed the Kabba in Mecca, and threw out all the Pagan idols, he left the statues of Jesus, Mary and Joseph -- they're still there.

Sura 160 reads "For wrongdoing on the part of the Jews, We made unlawful for them [certain] good foods which had been lawful to them, and for their averting from the way of Allah many [people],'

Sura 5:73: 'They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment." This punishment is to be inflicted by God, not by man.

Sura 40-73: "Then it will be said to them, "Where is that which you used to associate [with Him in worship]"

[RED]

Sigh....

Red, the USAF can't require a Muslim to convert to Christianity as a precondition of joining the USAF without running afoul of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

The "true believer test" is an interesting idea, hypothetically, but impossible in practical terms. I know little about Islam, but a fair bit about Christianity, and sometimes wonder at some of the claims I encounter. There was this one guy who says his pastor told him that Jesus wants everyone who can to carry a gun. For example.

Only a complete moron and total jerk would argue that anyone including police, military, and private companies like UPS that require employees wear a uniform and comply with appearance limits is establishing a religion. So how well would the USMC work if they didn’t have limits on dress and appearances?

Twist and turn, hate and burn, you are a American traitor.

[blackhawknj]

The ban on beards in the military came in with WWI-the gas mask.

[RED]

P

The ban on beards in the military came in with WWI-the gas mask.

Tell togor that! He thinks it was a ban on Muslims and Abraham Lincoln.

[PWC]

And yet when Mohammed cleansed the Kabba in Mecca, and threw out all the Pagan idols, he left the statues of Jesus, Mary and Joseph -- they're still there.

Sura 160 reads "For wrongdoing on the part of the Jews, We made unlawful for them [certain] good foods which had been lawful to them, and for their averting from the way of Allah many [people],'

Sura 5:73: 'They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment." This punishment is to be inflicted by God, not by man.

Sura 40-73: "Then it will be said to them, "Where is that which you used to associate [with Him in worship]"

Well, Vern, as I said, there are a lot of things I don't know, but what I do know is the position that Islam has manifested or outwardly taken against my country and my way of life, so my position is of necessity skewed. Everyone must choose for themselves based on their experience.

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, Vern, as I said, there are a lot of things I don't know, but what I do know is the position that Islam has manifested or outwardly taken against my country and my way of life, so my position is of necessity skewed. Everyone must choose for themselves based on their experience.

The point is, Islam didn't do any such thing. Some Muslims have perverted Islam, but most Muslims are reasonable and peaceful people. No need to blame all for what a few do.

[togor]

Only a complete moron and total jerk would argue that anyone including police, military, and private companies like UPS that require employees wear a uniform and comply with appearance limits is establishing a religion. So how well would the USMC work if they didn’t have limits on dress and appearances?

Twist and turn, hate and burn, you are a American traitor.

Sundowners?

From the OP:

None of the Arab states allow Christians in their service, let alone bibles. I am now ashamed of the AF leadership.

That reads to me like someone questioning whether Muslims should be allowed to serve period. That's the First Amendment issue. Equipment and uniform are trivial issues.

[blackhawknj]

Equipment and uniform are not trivial issues. Have double and triple standards, allowing certain people to be in privileged groups undermines morale and esprit, and ultimately combat effectiveness.