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  • High Plaines Doug r
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 267

    #1

    This is the substance of Togor's posts

    05-06-2018
    Poachers

    Originally Posted by togor
    Out today with the wife hunting for & spraying garlic mustard on the part of our property that we haven't brought under fire management. Labor of love with me lugging a backpack sprayer through the thorns and briars.

    We came across a large headless deer carcass, taken last fall/winter, judging by the look and smell of it. A fair guess would be that it was taken out of season, wounded on the public lands next door and then tracked on to our property. By no means the first carcass we've seen around here from an out-of-season hunt.

    In the old days, when the king was the government, poaching on the king's land could be punished by death. We're kinder and gentler now, but I see nothing wrong with poachers losing their firearms permissions in an administrative action. Maybe even for life. Losing hunting licenses obviously doesn't matter to them, but maybe risking gun access will make them think twice, if the prospect for being caught a second time is a trip to prison. Of course the bleeding hearts at the NRA will claim this is far to severe a sanction, and yes it would never happen. But I spend a lot of time year round on that public land, and there isn't a trail sign on it that hasn't been used for target practice. Say what you will about the tree-huggers, but they seem to wear less on the public lands.”

    High Plaines Doug r:
    A citation would be appropriate here regarding your claim of NRA support of criminals using firearms in the commission of any crime. It is my understanding that the NRA vigorously supports game management and strict enforcement of game laws and has for over the last 135+ years. If you could provide me with such I would be happy to defer my judgement of your claim as that of a troll or an imbecile.

    Originally Posted by togor
    Nobody is saying NRA is pro poaching Doug but I doubt they feel as strongly as I do about hammering the bastards where it hurts when I find a carcass on my property. Go back and re-read the post. - - Updated - - -
    Big carcass.

    High Plaines doug r:
    "... if the prospect for being caught a second time is a trip to prison. Of course the bleeding hearts at the NRA will claim this is far to (sic) severe a sanction..."

    Citation please? It is not the purview of the NRA to write game laws or enforce them. They do however, regularly rail at the mis-use of firearms by such criminals as you are describing.

    High Plaines Doug r:
    Actually, You have said the NRA is "pro poaching" above.

    Two years and still no citation. Just more of the same empty accusations and labeling of straw men you set up and bravely knock down because they don't feel as strongly as you do. Brave Sir Togor!
  • S.A. Boggs
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 8579

    #2
    Perhaps the Court Jester Togor will reply, most likely with some form of "Google" response of which he and Sir Trash are infamous for.
    Sam

    Comment

    • togor
      Banned
      • Nov 2009
      • 17610

      #3
      Hi Doug,

      Hey blast from the past! Sure let's discuss. Here's a link from the NRA Hunters Leadership Forum article, which argues persuasively a point on which I think we can all agree:

      Poachers are not hunters.



      The article talks about dramatically steeper fines for trophy bucks, as an example of the kind of strong anti-poaching initiative the worthy of support. (Does it actually deter poaching? A topic for another day perhaps.)

      But clearly, the NRA:

      1) does not approve of game law violations, and

      2) is willing to support monetary penalties.

      However, and now coming to my point: what is poaching, if not someone using a weapon to take something that does not belong to them? In every other case I can think of, using a weapon to do that is armed robbery, or worse, and a serious felony that results in the loss of firearms. For poaching the laws are more lenient, even for the most serious offenses. However that may be changing. In NM and WV, poaching can lead to a felony conviction, possibly other states as well.

      I am however, unable to find any NRA position paper where they advocate anything stronger than fines as poaching penalties. If there is an example of the NRA favoring felony status for some poaching offenses, I have not seen it (and I have looked).

      The problem with fines, as we know, is that they don't necessarily work. Rich guys can pay them, poor guys don't. And someone who poaches may have already decided to just skip the licensing process altogether.

      Since you took the trouble to dig up an old post, I've tried to give you a serious reply. I expect I'll get a "more proof togor hates guns" ad-hominem attack from a few guys, but who knows, maybe someone will choose to discuss the topic, not the person.

      Stay safe!!!

      Comment

      • togor
        Banned
        • Nov 2009
        • 17610

        #4
        Originally posted by S.A. Boggs
        Perhaps the Court Jester Togor will reply, most likely with some form of "Google" response of which he and Sir Trash are infamous for.
        Sam
        Try the high road sometime. What have you got to lose?
        Last edited by togor; 05-21-2020, 02:59.

        Comment

        • Vern Humphrey
          Administrator - OFC
          • Aug 2009
          • 15875

          #5
          Originally posted by High Plaines Doug r
          05-06-2018


          Two years and still no citation. Just more of the same empty accusations and labeling of straw men you set up and bravely knock down because they don't feel as strongly as you do. Brave Sir Togor!
          What do you expect? This is why I have him on ignore.

          Comment

          • Roadkingtrax
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 7835

            #6
            Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
            What do you expect? This is why I have him on ignore.
            No, you do not.
            "The first gun that was fired at Fort Sumter sounded the death-knell of slavery. They who fired it were the greatest practical abolitionists this nation has produced." ~BG D. Ullman

            Comment

            • S.A. Boggs
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 8579

              #7
              Originally posted by togor
              Try the high road sometime. What have you got to lose?



              You and Sir Trash.
              Sam

              Comment

              • lyman
                Administrator - OFC
                • Aug 2009
                • 11297

                #8
                link to original thread please...


                not sure why the NRA would get involved in regulating poaching at all, that is something each State's Game and Inland Fishery dept would handle,


                were they contacted?

                Comment

                • Vern Humphrey
                  Administrator - OFC
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 15875

                  #9
                  Originally posted by lyman
                  link to original thread please...


                  not sure why the NRA would get involved in regulating poaching at all, that is something each State's Game and Inland Fishery dept would handle,


                  were they contacted?
                  He couldn't blame Trump, so he blamed the NRA, his two bugaboos.

                  Comment

                  • Roadkingtrax
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 7835

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vern Humphrey
                    He couldn't blame Trump, so he blamed the NRA, his two bugaboos.
                    Talking through Lyman again. Weird.
                    "The first gun that was fired at Fort Sumter sounded the death-knell of slavery. They who fired it were the greatest practical abolitionists this nation has produced." ~BG D. Ullman

                    Comment

                    • rayg
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 7444

                      #11
                      Lyman says..link to original thread please...

                      I also ask him many times to provide a link to verify his posts, but never get them.....Lol
                      Last edited by rayg; 05-21-2020, 01:02.

                      Comment

                      • Major Tom
                        Very Senior Member - OFC
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 6181

                        #12
                        In my State, if caught poaching that person will 1. be fined, 2. lose his weapon, 3. lose his vehicle, 4. no more hunting licenses.

                        Comment

                        • lyman
                          Administrator - OFC
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 11297

                          #13
                          Originally posted by rayg
                          Lyman says..link to original thread please...

                          I also ask him many times to provide a link to verify his posts, but never get them.....Lol
                          was asking for the link to the original thread,

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by Major Tom
                          In my State, if caught poaching that person will 1. be fined, 2. lose his weapon, 3. lose his vehicle, 4. no more hunting licenses.
                          ditto here,

                          they (DGIF) take the gun, ammo, vehicle, (truck,car or utility,) and will even go in your house and check your freezer,

                          they have more powers than the avg police

                          you will get cited,
                          you will go to court
                          you may get time, but doubtful, usually fines and loss of priviledges
                          you may never hunt legally again

                          Comment

                          • High Plaines Doug r
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 267

                            #14
                            Originally posted by togor
                            Hi Doug,

                            Hey blast from the past! Sure let's discuss. Here's a link from the NRA Hunters Leadership Forum article, which argues persuasively a point on which I think we can all agree:

                            Poachers are not hunters.



                            The article talks about dramatically steeper fines for trophy bucks, as an example of the kind of strong anti-poaching initiative the worthy of support. (Does it actually deter poaching? A topic for another day perhaps.)

                            But clearly, the NRA:

                            1) does not approve of game law violations, and

                            2) is willing to support monetary penalties.

                            However, and now coming to my point: what is poaching, if not someone using a weapon to take something that does not belong to them? In every other case I can think of, using a weapon to do that is armed robbery, or worse, and a serious felony that results in the loss of firearms. For poaching the laws are more lenient, even for the most serious offenses. However that may be changing. In NM and WV, poaching can lead to a felony conviction, possibly other states as well.

                            I am however, unable to find any NRA position paper where they advocate anything stronger than fines as poaching penalties. If there is an example of the NRA favoring felony status for some poaching offenses, I have not seen it (and I have looked).

                            The problem with fines, as we know, is that they don't necessarily work. Rich guys can pay them, poor guys don't. And someone who poaches may have already decided to just skip the licensing process altogether.

                            Since you took the trouble to dig up an old post, I've tried to give you a serious reply. I expect I'll get a "more proof togor hates guns" ad-hominem attack from a few guys, but who knows, maybe someone will choose to discuss the topic, not the person.

                            Stay safe!!!
                            Togor;

                            2years? Yeah "Blast from the past"

                            So your entire beef with the NRA is that they don't support (your level) of position that the theft of State Property ("game", by use of a firearm) is the same level of crime as the robbery of a human person/s by firearm?

                            Or is your problem with the dickheads who throw their trash in your yard?
                            My problem is with you casting a wide net that is better dealt with by your reporting local violations to local authorities. (Not NRAs job)

                            Live well,

                            Doug

                            Comment

                            • lyman
                              Administrator - OFC
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 11297

                              #15
                              thanks Doug

                              found the thread thru you previous posts,


                              http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showt...425#post583425

                              Comment

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