Maybe we should disband the police and every one would obey the law

**togor** · 06-09-2020, 05:28

Ray you are misrepresenting the ideas. Deliberate or accidental ignorance? You get to decide.

**Vern Humphrey** · 06-09-2020, 06:47

Originally posted by rayg

Maybe we should disband the police and every one would just obey the law

Sure. After all, look at how well outlawing guns worked.

**lyman** · 06-09-2020, 07:03

Originally posted by togor

Ray you are misrepresenting the ideas. Deliberate or accidental ignorance? You get to decide.

maybe semantics, but one could argue those in favor are misrepresenting the idea,

or blame it on the media and sensationalizing the headlines would probably be more correct

**togor** · 06-09-2020, 08:03

Originally posted by lyman

maybe semantics, but one could argue those in favor are misrepresenting the idea,

or blame it on the media and sensationalizing the headlines would probably be more correct

There is a range of ideas under that banner, some of which come from law enforcement itself and which would find support here if given a chance at calm discussion.

However because the slogan is alarming, there are those who assumes it only means laying of all cops and letting the chips fall where they may. If that view exists at all, it is on the fringe, far away from serious consideration. But it is a useful knee-jerk interpretation to get the reactionaries all fired up.

**rayg** · 06-09-2020, 08:04

Originally posted by togor

Ray you are misrepresenting the ideas. Deliberate or accidental ignorance? You get to decide.

How am I doing so, Are they not facts! And what about the rioters during the last couple weeks. And you say I'm misrepresenting ideas....What are the ideas? Maybe to help the blacks? and you think these events are helping..These events only hurt the honest hard working and respectable blacks. But you want me and the country to turn a blind eye to these situations because it's misrepresenting ideas.,
After the marches and protests are over, everything will just go back to the way it was..And it will not improve until the black community, as a whole take measures to improve it. God only knows, the government and tax payers have tried..It's up to the people themselves to do it..

**Vern Humphrey** · 06-09-2020, 08:34

Originally posted by rayg

How am I doing so, Are they not facts! And what about the rioters during the last couple weeks. And you say I'm misrepresenting ideas....What are the ideas? Maybe to help the blacks? and you think these events are helping..These events only hurt the honest hard working and respectable blacks. But you want me and the country to turn a blind eye to these situations because it's misrepresenting ideas.,
After the marches and protests are over, everything will just go back to the way it was..And it will not improve until the black community, as a whole take measures to improve it. God only knows, the government and tax payers have tried..It's up to the people themselves to do it..

Question 1: How many blacks have been killed by other Blacks in the past week?

Question 2: How many people are marching in protest over THOSE killings?

**togor** · 06-09-2020, 10:00

Ray here's a thoughtful piece to explain the perspective that there is a problem with policing. Skip the first three minutes to stay centered. Yes a liberal point of view but that's what you want to hear, so far as I can tell. Thoroughly researched.

Do try to stick around for the final 90 seconds.

**Art** · 06-09-2020, 10:04

Originally posted by togor

Ray you are misrepresenting the ideas. Deliberate or accidental ignorance? You get to decide.

This is the standard talking point of the left whenever the horrific black on black crime in sections of cities that have been abandoned by the local administrations is mentioned.

I see Father Pfleger, radical priest and lefty provocateur was wailing over the lack of police protection in black communities in Chicago. Well welcome to the Police Free society. If I was a policeman in one of these progressive paradises I'd be really careful about what I got involved in because i wouldn't want to get shot or have my life destroyed because somebody decided I was overzealous...right or wrong. Of course if I was starting out today I would never, and I mean never EVER be a cop at any level. I think the average police recruit today is a person who watches a lot of cop shows and never watches the news.

The fact is that the administrators of these cities care little about the butchery in these neighborhoods, at least not enough to address the real underlying problems which go far beyond the occasional cop bad actor. Not a peep about the almost total collapse of the black family since the late 1960s which is a huge problem and major contributor to the violence. This catastrophic situation only gets very rare lip service because the problem is more difficult to deal with than uttering the usual political platitudes. More importantly, defending traditional marital family relationships is far too politically toxic on the left. The current sexual orthodoxy on the left makes that too toxic, even for most people on the right to touch, except for the odd preacher here and there.

Symbolism matters a lot more than real dead black people to the current Trotskyites unless the dead person is killed by the right person in the right place.

**togor** · 06-09-2020, 10:20

Art that will play well here but is avoiding the immediate complaint, that militarized policing with an emphasis on a pacification strategy hasn't worked, and is in fact holding these neighborhoods back. As an analogy, we came up with all kinds of reasons for flooding South Vietnam with troops, and in the end, that failed. If what is being done now isn't working, then why insist on sticking with it?

**Tuna** · 06-09-2020, 10:33

In theory, Now just what would happen if all police officers in the country decided to stay home for a week. No police out on the street at all. What would happen then? What would those on the liberal side say as this is what they want in a sense? What would they do when confronted by gangs? Run away and hide? Call out the National Guard is fine if they show up as there are no police to direct them where to go. Still take days for the Guard to get moving. Total chaos as a result. So those who want to disband and defund the police should be careful for what they ask for. It might come back to haunt them. So many dedicated police officers just may say enough is enough and stay home.

**rayg** · 06-09-2020, 10:50

Originally posted by togor

Ray here's a thoughtful piece to explain the perspective that there is a problem with policing. Skip the first three minutes to stay centered. Yes a liberal point of view but that's what you want to hear, so far as I can tell. Thoroughly researched.

Do try to stick around for the final 90 seconds.

Ray posts....John Oliver John William Oliver (born 23 April 1977) is an English-American comedian, writer, producer, political commentator, actor, and television host. Just recently became a US citizen.

And I am sorry but I could not hear the video good due to my computer's poor speakers. But noted that he is English. He just recently became a US citizen...And now feels qualified to tell us what's wrong with America.

**Art** · 06-09-2020, 10:59

Originally posted by togor

Art that will play well here but is avoiding the immediate complaint, that militarized policing with an emphasis on a pacification strategy hasn't worked, and is in fact holding these neighborhoods back. As an analogy, we came up with all kinds of reasons for flooding South Vietnam with troops, and in the end, that failed. If what is being done now isn't working, then why insist on sticking with it?

Again, this is the standard talking point when what I said is brought up.

Actually, the evils of the militarized police force and complaints about it, especially SWAT teams, were going on by the right wingers on these forums long before you were here. The difference is the complaints were about the police conducting no knock raids on people who were usually not black, especially if they had ever been in the military. So lets talk about the militarized police.

The police are a coercive organization. They exist to apprehend people who are doing things they want to do that are out of bounds societally speaking. Things like armed robbery, murder, rape etc. Since these people are usually not willing to go peacefully they often have to be "coerced," and that part is seldom pretty. With that out of the way I do not approve of a lot of the trends in policing over the last 30 odd years.

When I went to work plain clothes officers never walked around with exposed firearms, even, for the most part, if they were participating in raids. In fact my manual said right up front that the "ostentatious display of firearms" was prohibited and that a firearm was never to be drawn simply to make an arrest. I found that a good policy that has fallen by the wayside.

No knock warrants are massively abused. I don't believe a no knock warrant should be issued simply to keep somebody from flushing the evidence. This is especially true with night warrants.

I heard an old boy suggest a national data base into which all complaints of police misconduct, especially if they result in internal affairs investigations, should be entered and it should be accessible to any agency considering hiring an officer who had previously worked for another department to include prison guards and probation and parole officers. I thought that was just a swell-elegant idea. Too often officers who have been fired (or more often forced to resign) from departments for misconduct simply go to another agency. This program would discourage that.

Police departments should "grow a pair" when it comes to discipline. Apparently this old boy (Chauvin) had double digit complaints and internal affairs investigations in his 20 odd year career. How did he ever become a training officer??? Even if he stayed on the force he should never been allowed anywhere near a trainee. Now two young guys with just a few days on the street who happened to be assigned to this bozo at least probably have seen the end of a police career even though they told him he probably should have gotten off the guy. Too bad for them though, they are going to be the victims of a de facto "bill of attainder" and will be fortunate if they're just broken financially and don't wind up going to jail for a long time.

Speaking of administration, in the old days the NYPD had what was called the "rubber gun squad" which was made up of officers who for some reason weren't allowed on the street. One of the things that got you into the "rubber gun squad" was to have been involved in three officer involved shootings (there were a few exceptions.) The thinking was that if you had three shootings there were also three possibilities: you were overzealous, you were extremely unlucky, or you just liked shooting people (one or all.) So in that case you wen't to the "rubber gun squad" with an assignment to the ID division, or a bailiff or some other task that kept you productive but off the street and in a place you could be watched. I doubt the "rubber gun squad" exists today but I found it an excellent idea.

**togor** · 06-09-2020, 11:06

Originally posted by rayg

John Oliver John William Oliver (born 23 April 1977) is an English-American comedian, writer, producer, political commentator, actor, and television host. Just recently became a US citizen.

I am sorry but I could not hear the video good due to my computer's poor speakers. But noted that he is English, and just recently became a US citizen...And now is apparently is telling us what's wrong with the US.

It's unfortunate that your speakers do not work. You are missing a well constructed viewpoint, which, if nothing else, competes with yours in the marketplace of ideas. Knowing what the competition is valuable.

**lyman** · 06-09-2020, 11:11

Originally posted by togor

Art that will play well here but is avoiding the immediate complaint, that militarized policing with an emphasis on a pacification strategy hasn't worked, and is in fact holding these neighborhoods back. As an analogy, we came up with all kinds of reasons for flooding South Vietnam with troops, and in the end, that failed. If what is being done now isn't working, then why insist on sticking with it?

yet Art is correct, what the other side is avoiding is exactly what Art mentions,

and if someone brings it up they are tagged as racist, or part of the problem,

Maybe we should disband the police and every one would obey the law

Maybe we should disband the police and every one would obey the law

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment