Military draft

[Vern Humphrey]

there was the problem of "judge recommended" enlistments, 8 weeks of BCT not enough to change years of bad attitudes, bad habits, bad upbringing.

I always wanted to meet one of those judges in a dark alley and explain the Army is not Society's babysitter.

I saw no correlation between a high IQ, high test scores, civilian education and an ability to resist fatigue, hunger, heat, thirst.

There is indeed a correlation. When I was an AIT Company Commander at Fort Polk in '67-'68, we got a bunch of draftees who were college dropouts. In those days we kept statistics on EVERYTHING. These guys averaged slightly taller and slightly heavier than other kids, and they broke every record -- marksmanship, PT, you name it.

This is the best example I know of the BBP Theory -- the Basic Better Person -- which holds that physical and mental traits tend to cluster.

In his book Vietnam at War LTG Phillip Davidson-J2 to both Westmoreland and Abrams-notes that "men who were deficient in character and intelligence became sergeants and lieutenants" and his book The War Managerstwo tour Vietnam veteran and West Point graduate Douglas Kinnard says the failure to mobilize the reserves resulted in "Regular Army OCS standards falling to the Calley-Medina level".

That is true -- The Army had to make do with what it got. We had to produce a lot of sergeants and Second Lieutenants rapidly, and some of them were poor material.

[m1ashooter]

An officer in the recruiting business quoted this a few years ago. The numbers probably aren't exact but are close. 75% of our nations youth are not qualified to enlist if they went MEPS. They can't pass the educational requirements, physical requirements, have criminal records or addictions. That leaves 25% but only 1% of this pool will enlist.

The talk of a draft is an interesting one but its not needed. The days of conflicts like we have seen in the past with large standing armies is over.

[Vern Humphrey]

An officer in the recruiting business quoted this a few years ago. The numbers probably aren't exact but are close. 75% of our nations youth are not qualified to enlist if they went MEPS. They can't pass the educational requirements, physical requirements, have criminal records or addictions. That leaves 25% but only 1% of this pool will enlist.

The talk of a draft is an interesting one but its not needed. The days of conflicts like we have seen in the past with large standing armies is over.

Absolutely. WHY would we want to create a large, standing Army?

[Vern Humphrey]

-After all, voluntary enlistees by definition WANT to be there.-

Or go to jail or some other reason in some cases. Girlfriend got pregnant. I heard that was kind of the case with the foreign legion. Or it just might be fun to shoot people.
I'd like to see a draft of sorts to give these kids something to do. A CCC kind of thing; the Corvid Conservation Corps. With some discipline. Kids need direction. If you work hard enough you don't have the energy to worry about everyone else. You work for your team. 3..2..1..

I think I mentioned this before -- the Army is not the nation's babysitter. Our mission is to fight wars, not to change diapers and wipe snotty noses.

[blackhawknj]

My experience 1967-1971 was that the Draft filled the Army's with quality enlisted men who were all too often better than their superiors. I met my share of lifers who typified the "NCO-No Chance Outside" stereotype, as one West Pointer said to me "The 'Old Sarge who knows his stuff'-how many of those did you meet?". And my share of officers I wouldn't have followed down Main Street in broad daylight. I like to quote the ASA/Signal Corps E-7 I knew-the son of an E-9. He arrived at a new duty, the First Sergeant looked at his name plate, said with a derisive snort and a sneer:
"Was your father First Sergeant So-and-So ? Ask him if he remembers me!"
His father wrote back:
"Yes I remember him-and he was a sorry PFC !"
The Waffen-SS General Felix Steiner said criminals could make good soldiers provided you know how to handle them, there was the Dirlewanger Brigade of poachers and other misfits, the Wehrmacht and Red Army had their penal battalions.
One officer stationed at Fort Hood in the early 1960s said the slackers, shirkers and goof offs had a monopoly on the weekend duty roster.

[Vern Humphrey]

My experience 1967-1971 was that the Draft filled the Army's with quality enlisted men who were all too often better than their superiors.

And the Army put a lot of effort at getting good men into "shake and bake" NCO training and OCS -- but still had to make do with some who weren't of the quality we wanted.