Lockdowns, Death Rates, and Jobs

[Art]

Some interesting stats re the effect of lockdowns. New York and California had the hardest lockdowns among the four biggest states. Florida committed more than any other major state to keeping businesses and schools open. How did that work out in death rate and economic damage with unemployment rate as a benchmark in thefour biggest states. In the interest of fairness, New Jersey, another hard lockdown state has an even higher death rate than New York.

Death rate per million:

NY: 2,459
Tx: 1,520
Fl: 1,437
Ca: 1,321

Death rate per million worldwide:

NY: 2,459
Czch: 1,909
Belg: 1,899
Eng: 1,805
Pol: 1,622
US: 1,582

It appears that if NY were a country it would have one of the highest, if not the highest covid death rates in the world .

Unemployment rate:

Fl: 6.1%
Tx: 7.2%
Ny: 8.2%
Ca: 9%

These stats are after one year so what's what is sorting itself out.

Cuomo has been called a hero all year for the way he handled the corona virus crisis but De Santis is a villian for his management of Florida at the same time. Why could that be, could it be a political agenda totally divorced from the facts. The chickens are coming home to roost though, Cuomo is in deep trouble at home more for his sexually predatory tendencies that the death rate but he's in trouble for his mismanage of covid too. Gavin Newsome is facing a recall in California over the state's collapsing economy. I wonder if Cuomo will have to give back that Emmy

[Sandpebble]

Interesting stats Art.... but it they don't explain the whole story

Comparing Florida to N.Y. for example . Florida is divided into extremely rural and highly populated areas. The highly populated areas are filled with old retirees who are quite happy staying home and never going out the front door . So they aren't spreading the disease.

Florida's unemployment rate is always lower than it seems because you'll likely starve to death before you make it through the system and receive your first payment . Along those lines, once they are on them... good luck hiring someone down here until the last dime of their benefits are used up.

Now, Cuomo .... N.Y. had the highest death rate regardless of all the efforts of Cuomo . What would the N.Y. death rate have been if he'd just tried to ignore it all like Trump and DeSantis ?

Are you trying to tell us the death rate would have been less if Cuomo had just ignored the problem ? .... are you denying all those people died in N.Y. ??

Right or wrong Cuomo made an effort for his constituents ... DeSantis just lucked out. .... so far

[lyman]

Interesting stats Art.... but it they don't explain the whole story

Comparing Florida to N.Y. for example . Florida is divided into extremely rural and highly populated areas. The highly populated areas are filled with old retirees who are quite happy staying home and never going out the front door . So they aren't spreading the disease.

Florida's unemployment rate is always lower than it seems because you'll likely starve to death before you make it through the system and receive your first payment . Along those lines, once they are on them... good luck hiring someone down here until the last dime of their benefits are used up.

Now, Cuomo .... N.Y. had the highest death rate regardless of all the efforts of Cuomo . What would the N.Y. death rate have been if he'd just tried to ignore it all like Trump and DeSantis ?

Are you trying to tell us the death rate would have been less if Cuomo had just ignored the problem ? .... are you denying all those people died in N.Y. ??

Right or wrong Cuomo made an effort for his constituents ... DeSantis just lucked out. .... so far

interesting spin,


re NY,

Florida is divided into extremely rural and highly populated areas.

so is NY, lots of green once you get away from NYC

I drove up last summer and picked up an estate ,
was in Albany for a couple days,
despite Coumo's greatness, folks that I talked to in a likker store and while waiting on a pizza were not thrilled with his actions, or him,
and the rest of the folks were just trying to live their lives,, just like I imagine those in Fla were


and are you saying that Fla's tougher unemployment bennies are causing a 2% drop?

[Art]

LOL, what Lyman said plus some

I've spent a lot of time in both states and can tell you that like Florida New york is divided into rural and highly populated areas. Florida isn't dominated by one urban area to the extent New York is but the heavily populated Miami-Dade (which includes the coast up to Ft Lauderdale,) Tampa St Pete and Jacksonville areas account for the bulk of the state population.

I don't see how you can say New York would have the highest death rate regardless of Cuomo. New York probably has the highest stand alone death rate in the world, I say probably because the numbers of some countries, from China to the Sudan are not reliable but the simple fact is that if NY were a country it would have the worst record of any country with decent record keeping that isn't flat out lying about its casualties.

The ability of the left to absolve their pets of anything no matter how heinous never ceases to amaze me. Cuomo claimed he put covid patients into nursing homes because he had no place else to put them (accounting for between 15,000 and 20,000 deaths) That his administration "Jimmied the books" on that is now an uncontested fact; that and the following cover up IS attested to by his own chief of staff. He did not use the hospital ship provided by the Trump administration or the hospital built in Madison Square Garden probably because he didn't want any credit to accrue to Trump.

When it comes to Florida you seem to imply that Florida's reluctance to subsidize laziness is a bad thing. Any effect it has in this case is minimal. The unemployment rate in Florida is lower because Florida business stayed open - period paragraph end of story.

Facts are pesky thing.

[Vern Humphrey]

Cuomo made a wrong effort for his constituents, and put a bunch of them under.

[lyman]

LOL, what Lyman said plus some

I've spent a lot of time in both states and can tell you that like Florida New york is divided into rural and highly populated areas. Florida isn't dominated by one urban area to the extent New York is but the heavily populated Miami-Dade (which includes the coast up to Ft Lauderdale,) Tampa St Pete and Jacksonville areas account for the bulk of the state population.

I don't see how you can say New York would have the highest death rate regardless of Cuomo. New York probably has the highest stand alone death rate in the world, I say probably because the numbers of some countries, from China to the Sudan are not reliable but the simple fact is that if NY were a country it would have the worst record of any country with decent record keeping that isn't flat out lying about its casualties.

The ability of the left to absolve their pets of anything no matter how heinous never ceases to amaze me. Cuomo claimed he put covid patients into nursing homes because he had no place else to put them (accounting for between 15,000 and 20,000 deaths) That his administration "Jimmied the books" on that is now an uncontested fact; that and the following cover up IS attested to by his own chief of staff. He did not use the hospital ship provided by the Trump administration or the hospital built in Madison Square Garden probably because he didn't want any credit to accrue to Trump.

When it comes to Florida you seem to imply that Florida's reluctance to subsidize laziness is a bad thing. Any effect it has in this case is minimal. The unemployment rate in Florida is lower because Florida business stayed open - period paragraph end of story.

Facts are pesky thing.

Cuomo also stated he would not allow any Vaccine to be distributed in NY that came from Trump, or the Trump Admin,
he relaxed that after Trump lost,,,

he would rather his folks in NY die,,,

[Sandpebble]

My question still stands ..... Are you trying to tell us the death rate would have been less if Cuomo had just ignored the problem ? ..

[Art]

My question still stands ..... Are you trying to tell us the death rate would have been less if Cuomo had just ignored the problem ? ..

What a straw man.

I didn't say Cuomo should have ignored the problem nor did I imply it. De Santis didn't do "nothing," he didn't do what Cuomo did and his death rate is a lot lower in a state with about the same population. I'm not going to research Florida covid policy for you but its all on line if you want to look at it.

I am saying that the death rate would have been lower, probably a lot lower, if Cuomo had acted differently and that the drastic lockdown was should have been eased off earlier.

[Sandpebble]

If Cuomo acted differently you say ... the death rate would have been a lot lower. Acted differently like how? Acted more like Trump and Desantis perhaps ?

Desantis did Jack Chit ,... the lower { seemingly} death rate here in Florida was just luck of the draw on the part of leadership by Desantis

p.s. .... note the "neighborhoods" that got the vaccines first here in Florida.... coincidental ?

[Art]

If Cuomo acted differently you say ... the death rate would have been a lot lower. Acted differently like how? Acted more like Trump and Desantis perhaps ?

Desantis did Jack Chit ,... the lower { seemingly} death rate here in Florida was just luck of the draw on the part of leadership by Desantis

p.s. .... note the "neighborhoods" that got the vaccines first here in Florida.... coincidental ?

First the point was do lockdowns reduce death rate. The statistical answer for the four biggest states is no.

Second, Cuomo could have not funneled covid patients into nursing homes. He claimed 8,000 fatalities which was a lie, we're at 13,000 + in New York now and counting. Florida with its massive senior population has 9,000 more or less right now, California which is the biggest state in the country almost twice the size of New York also has about 9,000.

Since anything done by Cuomo was the best that could be done despite 46,000 odd deaths and De Santis was just lucky, I guess Gregg Abbott was too and the stats obviously mean nothing to you I guess I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this circular debate, at least with you.

[togor]

Art, nothing you have shown demonstrates causality. You've correlated lockdowns and high mortality rates, but can't show causality there. Not even close.

Sandpebble gets this, and he's right.

It was a year ago that Northern Italy was getting its ass handed to it by Covid-19. What did they do to get a handle on it? What did Wuhan do? Now someone can say that in America we don't have the stomach for anything close to that, and that may be true. But to look at the American model and say "lockdowns cause higher mortality"....sorry but that's almost laughable.

[lyman]

Art, nothing you have shown demonstrates causality. You've correlated lockdowns and high mortality rates, but can't show causality there. Not even close.

Sandpebble gets this, and he's right.

It was a year ago that Northern Italy was getting its ass handed to it by Covid-19. What did they do to get a handle on it? What did Wuhan do? Now someone can say that in America we don't have the stomach for anything close to that, and that may be true. But to look at the American model and say "lockdowns cause higher mortality"....sorry but that's almost laughable.

so instead of talking,,

prove him wrong,

you just typed words w/o data, just like pebbles,

[m1ashooter]

Some of us have tracked this, analyzed it etc. etc. etc. It appears to me that the states that have locked down verses those that didn't lock down or lock down as much have about the same results. The virus is still there in the population. We will now see what happens in Texas over the next few weeks. Will things get better, worse or stay the same in regards to the infection rate. Hind site is always 20/20.

[togor]

so instead of talking,,

prove him wrong,

you just typed words w/o data, just like pebbles,

I hope Art isn't arguing that lockdowns cause covid. Plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like I said, N. Italy went into lockdown only after things were spinning out of control.

Art may be arguing that covid causes lockdowns cause death because that's the chronological order. But the order isn't causality. The lockdowns are ordered as a result of the spike in cases, and the spike in cases leads to a spike in deaths about 4 weeks out, because that's how long on average it takes to die from covid-19.

Remember just because A and B occur together doesn't mean A causes B, or B causes A. Both may be caused by C. I have a brand new stamp in my passport, and I'm feeling jet-lagged. Did the stamp cause the jet lag? Of course not. Both resulted from a long international flight.

The governor of Texas in his infinite Texas wisdom has declared the pandemic pretty much over. Curious to see how that goes, and who in Texas believes him, and who doesn't.

[rayg]

Gentlemen our well know libs on this site are just taking you guys on a joy ride! None of their arguments have any substance...Lol