A One-State Solution

[lyman]

Did I miss something and the Israeli army started bombing Hamas for absolutely no reason? Oh wait, Hamas first started firing rockets at Israel didn't they. Apparently Hamas got the response they were seeking.

and they have been known to use others (business, schools etc) as human shields,

now that the AP office has been whacked, we will see much more criticism of Israel in the future in the press

[Johnny P]

The press unwittingly helped the Israelis flatten a few Hamas insurgents. The Israelis sent troops and armor to the border, and the press immediately reported an invasion was imminent. The Hamas scurried into their tunnels in preparation for the invasion and the Israelis promptly delivered a load of JDAM's to them.

[Mark in Ottawa]

I has thought for some time that the obvious solution was for the West Bank to become part of Jordan and for Gaza to become part of Egypt. That however, is not feasible. After the 1972 war when Israel and Egypt made peace and Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt, the Egyptians very cleverly refused to take back Gaza. I suspect that there were two reasons: 1) they knew that Gaza would be an ongoing problem for Israel and 2) the were smart enough to know that the Palestinians were a pain in the neck and that they didn't want anything to do with them. As for the West Bank, at one time they were under Jordanian control and a lot of Palestinians moved to Jordan. As a reward for being nice to the Palestinians, they tried twice to assassinate the King of Jordan. After the second try, the Jordanians evicted the Palestinians (I have just read that they killed 25,000 of them in the process) and pushed them into Lebanon. The reward for the Lebanese of being nice and letting them in was that they tried to overthrow the government. Bottom line here is that absolutely nobody wants anything to do with the Palestinians. There really is no solution to the issue

[lyman]

the Palestinians want what the Jewish folks have, a country,

problem is they have alienated themselves from the neighbors, and no one wants to carve out one for them,

[S.A. Boggs]

the Palestinians want what the Jewish folks have, a country,

problem is they have alienated themselves from the neighbors, and no one wants to carve out one for them,

What about California, apparently they are willing to take just about anyone!
Sam

[Tuna]

The truth about the Palestinians is the rest of the Arab world deplores them. Through out history they were Bedouin who were considered to be thieves who traveled the deserts. Stealing what ever they could then moving on. Murder meant nothing to them. No Arab country want's them living within their borders. A good example of what they do and caused is Lebanon once the jewel of the Arab world. Now all but controlled by Hamas and more Palestinians living there then natives. The Arab world pays them to stay away from them as if they were a plague. Better to let Israel be bitten by them then to let them loose in the world. Maybe Israel will finally wipe them off the face of the earth is what the Arab hopes. Remember that what they say and what they mean can be two different things and many times they are.

[S.A. Boggs]

The truth about the Palestinians is the rest of the Arab world deplores them. Through out history they were Bedouin who were considered to be thieves who traveled the deserts. Stealing what ever they could then moving on. Murder meant nothing to them. No Arab country want's them living within their borders. A good example of what they do and caused is Lebanon once the jewel of the Arab world. Now all but controlled by Hamas and more Palestinians living there then natives. The Arab world pays them to stay away from them as if they were a plague. Better to let Israel be bitten by them then to let them loose in the world. Maybe Israel will finally wipe them off the face of the earth is what the Arab hopes. Remember that what they say and what they mean can be two different things and many times they are.

+1
Sam

[Roadkingtrax]

What about California, apparently they are willing to take just about anyone!
Sam

Have you ever been to California? If so, when?

[M1Tommy]

".....call things what they are and go from there. ..."

What international law says that the majority must rule?
I'm just thinking aloud here, wondering who says, ".... what things are.."

Tommy

[lyman]

".....call things what they are and go from there. ..."

What international law says that the majority must rule?
I'm just thinking aloud here, wondering who says, ".... what things are.."

Tommy

he is just spouting party line,

[togor]

".....call things what they are and go from there. ..."

What international law says that the majority must rule?
I'm just thinking aloud here, wondering who says, ".... what things are.."

Tommy

Well that is kind of the issue for the Israeli Jewish people, their conundrum. Clearly there is no international law against a minority ruling over an unhappy majority. It happens a lot but often ends poorly for the minority.

See? We can have that conversation now.

[M1Tommy]

It will turn out poorly for the minority if they relinquish their leadership position. Otherwise they have their right to rule their country as they see fit. IMO, the USA should support them, being a somewhat favorable ally in the region.

Tommy

[togor]

Tommy your argument is the essential one of apartheid.

[dryheat]

Is apartheid good or bad?

[Art]

Just a bit of realistic comparison:

The number of "Palestinians" in Israel is greater than the number of Jews by about 200,000. That's more but not by a lot.

The 1996 South African census showed the country with a population that was 76% African, 11% White, 9% mixed race (colored,) and 2% Asian. That obviously white people were a very small majority in South Africa unlike Jews in Israel.

Blacks had zero input into the South African government. While Palestinians are a minority in the Knesset, they are still represented there.

Apartheid collapsed in South Africa for two reasons: The principle one being a very effective boycott, social as well as economic, that drastically cut South African commerce with most of the world, especially Europe and the United States, Heck to compete in an international sporting event of any kind a South African had to attach himself to and compete under the flag of a foreign country. Being an international pariah had as much of an effect as the economic consequences. Secondarily the fact that the maltreatment by 10% of the population of 90% of the population was incompatible with the religious/philosophical views of an increasingly large part of the white population, especially those of British descent.

Unlike the situation in South Africa just about everybody in the world engages in economic and social commerce with the state of Israel. Just last week Joe Biden re affirmed support for Israel immediately after having been dressed down in public over Israeli policy by Rashida Talib.

The Israelis have the best intelligence service in the world, (sorry CIA) possibly equaled only by the Russians. We use that service extensively, especially when they're (being on a perpetual wartime footing) willing to engage in dirty dealing we don't want to be associated with.

For almost a thousand years the Palestinians, in fact nearly everybody in the Levant were ruled by the Turks, in the final form by the "Ottoman Empire." With the collapse of the Ottoman Empire the "Great Powers" led by the Brits carved up what was left of it and generally screwed up the whole thing which in large part is responsible for the whole situation today.

The Jews, understandably after WWII decided they were never going to be in a situation where they would be at the mercy of any overlord ever again. They thus created a state where any Jew would find a place of refuge. The recent rise of anti Semitism in Europe and The United States will only continue to reinforce this attitude. To the Jews, worldwide, the state of Israel stands between them and those who despise them, between the devil and the damned.

Previous attempts at peace with the Palestinians have failed because the Palestinians have made it clear that when (not if) they win there will be an "ethnic cleansing" of the Jews in the Levant and they mean it. The land for peace initiative which the Israelis signed on to only resulted in more locations from which the Palestinians could shoot at them. Today the instruments of that shooting are supplied almost entirely by the Iranians. No Iranian supply a lot fewer rockets.

Last but not least. An Israeli leader, I believe Menachem Began, commented that the Jews are supposed to be the only good Christians in the world. They are not that.

P.S. On the term "Palestinian." In 133 A.D. (or C.E, if the fact that we count time from the approximate birth of Jesus offends you) after defeating the second and last revolt of the Judeans the Roman Emperor Hadrian prohibited any Jew from coming within 70 miles of the site of the city of Jerusalem. He also changed the name of the province from "Judea" to "Palestina." Palestina is the Latin for Philistia, the Philistines being the traditional enemies of the Jews; one last parting insult from old Hadrian.