The Afghanistan Architect

[Roadkingtrax]

I'm sure at the end of Vietnam, all the guys with scrambled eggs on their hats said we'd get the next one right. Problem is, they died or don't care anymore.

A full scale evacuation of thousands of people isn't anything we're good at. Take note for the next humanitarian crisis. It gets ugly early and stays that way. I see we've activated the airlines again. I remember riding American on military flights back in 2003. Pilots kept the cockpit doors open and the jump seats available for us to chat with them, despite the new FAA regulations from 9/11.

Republicans should be celebrating that Biden is taking care of the problem, despite intelligence failures and logistical limitations. That takes guts, no matter your politcal leanings. Trump or whomever gets elected in 2024 will not have to deal with the problem.

[lyman]

I'm sure at the end of Vietnam, all the guys with scrambled eggs on their hats said we'd get the next one right. Problem is, they died or don't care anymore.

A full scale evacuation of thousands of people isn't anything we're good at. Take note for the next humanitarian crisis. It gets ugly early and stays that way. I see we've activated the airlines again. I remember riding American on military flights back in 2003. Pilots kept the cockpit doors open and the jump seats available for us to chat with them, despite the new FAA regulations from 9/11.

Republicans should be celebrating that Biden is taking care of the problem, despite intelligence failures and logistical limitations. That takes guts, no matter your politcal leanings. Trump or whomever gets elected in 2024 will not have to deal with the problem.

lets hope not, and hope there are no repercussions from it that bite us in the future,

[Roadkingtrax]

lets hope not, and hope there are no repercussions from it that bite us in the future,

Agreed. The "GWOT" is alive and well, whether we're there or not. We have operations in Africa, Asia, and will continue to infiltrate the Middle East. Increasing our partnerships with India will serve as a thorn in the belly of China.

Resources dumped into the Trophy Wife known as Afghanistan needs to come to end. The real crime isn't in this boondoggle of a pullout, but the perpetuation of lie that we would have any influence over a predetermined outcome. Plenty of warning signs, and it's absolutely criminal that it was allowed to continue. No one will be punished, so it's easy to pick a boogeyman and run with it...everyone has a reason to be angry and disappointed.

Let's just get our people out, and hopefully calling up of commercial aircraft will help with resources.

[dryheat]

I'm pretty good with acronyms, but GWOT eludes me. It ain't Get Out While You Can. It's too early to see where the dust will settle. Screw the mid east. Of course retreat is retreat.

[Roadkingtrax]

I'm pretty good with acronyms, but GWOT eludes me. It ain't Get Out While You Can. It's too early to see where the dust will settle. Screw the mid east. Of course retreat is retreat.

Sorry about that. Global War On Terrorism.

[togor]

I am trying to imagine how a withdrawal with Trump at the helm would have been less chaotic on the ground, or less contentious back home. Just not seeing it.

[Art]

I am trying to imagine how a withdrawal with Trump at the helm would have been less chaotic on the ground, or less contentious back home. Just not seeing it.

That's already a Democrat talking point.

For one thing the Trump plan was that the troops would go out last, after all civilians had been evacuated and all equipment removed. Biden took the troops out first. If we had used the Trump plan and spent the last four or five months evacuating civilians and then removing or destroying equipment before we took out the troops, yes, I think things would have been different and less chaotic.

Biden has been undoing Trump programs on the sole basis that they were Trump programs. Not usually a good basis for action and it has seldom brought good results.

[lyman]

I am trying to imagine how a withdrawal with Trump at the helm would have been less chaotic on the ground, or less contentious back home. Just not seeing it.

That's already a Democrat talking point.

For one thing the Trump plan was that the troops would go out last, after all civilians had been evacuated and all equipment removed. Biden took the troops out first. If we had used the Trump plan and spent the last four or five months evacuating civilians and then removing or destroying equipment before we took out the troops, yes, I think things would have been different and less chaotic.

Biden has been undoing Trump programs on the sole basis that they were Trump programs. Not a good basis for action and it has seldom brought good results.

togor,

you cannot see it because your nature and beliefs will not allow it,

you have spent 4+ yrs of being nothing but critical of every,,,,,, single,,,,,,thing Trump did,
focusing almost exclusively on the negative

for someone such as yourself, it would be extremely hard to see any good,

Trump started the pull out before the election, and it was planned,

as I have mentioned, I had a guy that worked for me that got a contractor job to go to Afghanistan,
part of his duties was packing up equipment and such and moving it from one well known base to another, preparing for the shutdown,

there were, at least then, a few black op bases that he helped moved stuff to and out of (no idea where, not sure he did)


as Art mentioned, Trump planned on moving civilians first, and also as Art mentioned, Biden and his team have been cancelling out every single thing the can,

surely including his plan to get people out,


there was never going to be an easy way out, and there was never going to be a good way, as far as optics, of getting out,

but there damn sure was a fiasco on (lack of ) planning in the Biden admin and his Staff that can only be blamed on them,, not any one else,



think of it this way,
the wheels were set in motion to get out, and the current admin took the air out of those tires,,

[Vern Humphrey]

That's already a Democrat talking point.

For one thing the Trump plan was that the troops would go out last, after all civilians had been evacuated and all equipment removed. Biden took the troops out first. If we had used the Trump plan and spent the last four or five months evacuating civilians and then removing or destroying equipment before we took out the troops, yes, I think things would have been different and less chaotic.

Biden has been undoing Trump programs on the sole basis that they were Trump programs. Not usually a good basis for action and it has seldom brought good results.

At Fort Benning, GA, more than 50 years ago I learned how to execute a withdrawal:

FIRST evacuate all non-combat personnel and equipment.

NEXT evacuate half your combat personnel and one third of your heavy weapons

FINALLY, when everything is clear, you leave.

We knew how to do it 50 years ago -- and somehow no one remembers.

[togor]

Listen, a Federal government that ran like clockwork was *hardly* a hallmark of the Trump Administration. For one thing, they ran *everything* out of the White House, with very little delegation to folks in the field, in keeping with Trump's highly-centralized management style learned in his days as a Mom & Pop Hotelier. That is a formula for bottlenecked decision-making the moment the SHTF, and we have seen this happen with those guys.

The most likely scenario was that Trump would have failed to pull the trigger on the withdrawal. If they needed to blame the Taliban for this happening, who would have argued the point?

I'm not saying that Biden doesn't have a big mess on his hands, because he does. But I do believe that had Trump actually tried to do this, then it would have been a screw-up of roughly the same magnitude. I believe this for the simple reason that neither Trump or Biden would have any control of those thousands of Afghan Army troops that called it quits and headed for the hills. Their collapse is the proximal cause of all of this. If someone wants to try to argue how they wouldn't quit with a Trump withdrawal, then that is a post I will enjoy reading.

[Roadkingtrax]

37,000 evacuated thus far.

Taliban is holding us to a withdrawal date, from May 31 to now August 31st.

The deal was already negotiated, now the Taliban is seeking Russian support in forming a government. Who saw that coming?

[Art]

37,000 evacuated thus far.

Taliban is holding us to a withdrawal date, from May 31 to now August 31st.

The deal was already negotiated, now the Taliban is seeking Russian support in forming a government. Who saw that coming?

The Trump extended the deadline because the Taliban didn't play nice. They're not playing nice now figuring there'll be no consequences this time.

We just got a reminder to keep the current deadline - a firefight broke out today between gunmen outside the Kabul airport and U.S. German and Afghan troops in the airport. If I was the US government I would take this as a "nudge" not to extend the deadline and I think we may see more of this in the next few days. The airport is as indefensible as Dien Bien Phu and I don't see the current U.S. government saying if this continues we'll hurt you bad.

If the Russians do support the Taliban govt., those now Taliban Blackhawks might keep flying longer than we anticipated, not to mention the Rooskies and the ChiComs will have access to every bit of technology we left behind.

We never learn that it's chess not checkers.

[togor]

We have a few 'persuaders' of our own at air bases in the region, if it comes to that.

[Art]

We have a few 'persuaders' of our own at air bases in the region, if it comes to that.

Only if we have the "stones" to use them. I hope we do but I have my serious doubts.

[Roadkingtrax]

The Afghanistan military equipment drum is getting hit pretty hard here and in the media. We have export versions of equipment for a reason, so the sky isn't exactly falling. The risks of those sales falling into their hands have already considered, if not a forgone conclusion. The State Department and Pentagon agree jointly to military sales. People seem to conveniently forget that those are not our assets, we just paid for them in some way. Our contractors were maintaining them however...and the Taliban haven't called to negotiate a new maintenance labor rate.

The Russians and Chinese always have the same problems, their metallurgy sucks. They can determine the alloys, but can't replicate it.