How Is This A Story?

**one shot** · 03-12-2022, 03:38

I think they have bitten off more than they can chew already .

**Vern Humphrey** · 03-12-2022, 03:55

As I have said already, this is life or death for Putin. If he fails in the Ukraine, he goes down. So yeah, if he needs to fight on NATO territory he just might do that.

He should have been stopped six months ago.

**togor** · 03-12-2022, 04:12

Six months ago, two years, fine by me. But in their system the meanest dog runs the pack, until circumstances create an even meaner one. He is not an easy kill.

As for rolling on Ukraine, nobody thought he'd do it until he did. And given his assumptions going in, he was not to be deterred. Deterrence only works if the guy believes you and he was obviously living in fantasyland. So short of say bombing the sh*t out of Russian positions in Syria as a show of strength (something nobody back home would endorse), there was no easy way to get his attention.

Not clear yet if we have his attention, but the foreign minister whining about American weapons suggests that maybe that's starting to change.

**RED** · 03-14-2022, 08:22

[Quote] nobody thought he'd do it until he did. [Quote]

There you go again assuming you are the most knowledgeable and smartest man on earth. I knew he was going to invade if the Ukraines did not capitulate and so did others here. I have also said if he feels like he is actually losing the war he will not hesitate to use tactical nuclear weapons and I also believe the West would never have the gonads to strike back.

**jjrothWA** · 03-14-2022, 08:54

What happen in the 1973 Yom Kippur war, when USSR indicated that they would unilaterally enter and save the non-Israeli butts?

Kissinger and Nixon when to DEFCOM2.

Also, wasn't there a USN aviator flying a F14 over the balkans and due to the clintonista's ROE could not take action.
So he did the next best thing, configure the aircraft to supersonic configuration and made numerous passes over the village and GOT THIER ATTENTION!

Did the US wean out the "take action crowd? Or hasn't milley called putin to get authorization!!!

**Vern Humphrey** · 03-14-2022, 10:01

Note that Biden was saying Putin intended to invade the Ukraine for months before it happened. He had plenty of time to take action BEFORE Putin acted.

**togor** · 03-14-2022, 10:42

Originally posted by Vern Humphrey

Note that Biden was saying Putin intended to invade the Ukraine for months before it happened. He had plenty of time to take action BEFORE Putin acted.

Again, and said in a friendly way since we both want Putin defeated....

Deterrence requires someone willing to be deterred. If they've bought into a fiction of how it's going to be, then no message however strong can reach them.

Let's say Biden said "we will treat Ukraine like NATO territory if attacked". Well there was no consensus in the West for that. And if he was bluffing, and Putin called his bluff, THEN what? One has to be careful not to get out ahead of consensus when in a coalition.

So when the US now says "if even one square inch of NATO territory is attacked", it's actually more credible, in part because the alliance has been on the same page since this whole thing started. You gotta sell it, and Putin has been hearing it from multiple embassies now.

So I agree with those who say Biden needs to be making Russia's world get a little smaller every day--militarily, economically, diplomatically. But to say he failed because the war started? No I think that gets the situation wrong, especially since nobody can ID anything that said or done would guaranteed have stopped the invasion.

**lyman** · 03-14-2022, 03:36

the fiction and propaganda (redundant, I know) are mighty thick,

hard to say who is right or wrong,

How Is This A Story?

How Is This A Story?

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