Zelensky has brought his country to the brink of ruin ... ...

[dogtag]

I said this before, but I think it bears repeating - this war could have
been avoided if Zelensky had just given Putin the assurance that Ukraine
would not seek NATO membership. There was NEVER a chance that they
woulf get that anyway because NATO didn't want the problem that would
no doubt cause, So why did Zelensky thumb his nose at Putin ? To show
how brave he was and to lead his country into a war he had virtually no
chance of winning " The old aphorism "Discretion is the better part of valor"
should have given him pause, but no, he chose to go "Full steam ahead and
damn the torpedoes". So now what we have is cities on fire, thousands dead,
millions fleeing and the world in an uproar, Food supplies are threatened as
are oil supplies and the war rages on. Russia has become the world's bad boy
which will probably result in a new Cold War which, bad as that is, it's better
than a Hot one which it could well become if someone makes a bad move -
I'm thinking of Biden and Harris and their incompetent administration.
So, what price the hero ?

I know someone will liken this to WW2, but Putin hasn'r enslaved most
of Europe, Hitler had. But go ahead.

[togor]

Good God DT blaming the Ukrainians for what Putin is doing. That's messed up beyond belief.

[Roadkingtrax]

The Ukrainians are happy to not have such yellow leadership.

What a wimp.

[togor]

With a post like that hard to believe DT is cut from the same cloth as those who would have seen London turned to rubble before yielding it to the invader.

[dogtag]

With a post like that hard to believe DT is cut from the same cloth as those who would have seen London turned to rubble before yielding it to the invader.

Britain had plenty of help in their fight against the Nazis and no one had nukes.
She is also surrounded by water which makes a land invasion kinda tricky.
Ukraine is on her own. No other country will join the fight because of Putin's nuke threat.
When this over huge chunks of Ukraine will belong to Russia including the vital sea ports.
The rest of the country will be in ruins. Zelensky will have achieved nothing except chaos
and the people will have lost any vestige of freedom they once had.

I guess thousands dying for your idea of a great cause
even though it was a hopeless one from the start meets with your approval.

[Vern Humphrey]

Britain had plenty of help in their fight against the Nazis and no one had nukes.
She is also surrounded by water which makes a land invasion kinda tricky.
Ukraine is on her own. No other country will join the fight because of Putin's nuke threat.
When this over huge chunks of Ukraine will belong to Russia including the vital sea ports.
The rest of the country will be in ruins. Zelensky will have achieved nothing except chaos
and the people will have lost any vestige of freedom they once had.

I guess thousands dying for your idea of a great cause
even though it was a hopeless one from the start meets with your approval.

I assume you favor the death penalty for rape victims?

[togor]

Britain had plenty of help in their fight against the Nazis and no one had nukes.
She is also surrounded by water which makes a land invasion kinda tricky.
Ukraine is on her own. No other country will join the fight because of Putin's nuke threat.
When this over huge chunks of Ukraine will belong to Russia including the vital sea ports.
The rest of the country will be in ruins. Zelensky will have achieved nothing except chaos
and the people will have lost any vestige of freedom they once had.

I guess thousands dying for your idea of a great cause
even though it was a hopeless one from the start meets with your approval.

Not in 1940 they didn't. You seem to have forgotten the First Rule of Holes.

[Art]

What makes me nervous right now are three things. One is the simple fact that Russia is not winning the war at the moment. It is generally accepted that the Rooskies have already lost more men in The Ukraine than the U.S. and its allies did in the entire Iraq mess. Two is Russia cannot lose the war and have Putin stay in power. Finally, Putin has obviously gone off his nut and considering one and two Putin's threats to use chemical weapons or to "nuke" the Ukrainians have to be taken seriously. Things will are going get real at that point, and not just in The Ukraine.

[dogtag]

Putin is not going to accept any kind of defeat. He'll use a tactical nuke if things get worse for him.
No one is going to join the war on Ukraine's behalf no matter how desperate Zelensky's pleading.

I marvel at the bloodthirstys here who think a country's destruction is worthwhile,
but it's easy to be brave when you're not the one shedding blood.

[Art]

Putin is not going to accept any kind of defeat. He'll use a tactical nuke if things get worse for him.
No one is going to join the war on Ukraine's behalf no matter how desperate Zelensky's pleading.

I marvel at the bloodthirstys here who think a country's destruction is worthwhile,
but it's easy to be brave when you're not the one shedding blood.

Zelensky hasn't done this by himself. The vast majority of Ukrainians have bought in on it. Its a corporate effort so don't put it all on Zelensky. Churchill didn't act without the support of the Brit people, they could have rejected him and thrown in the towel at any time. So can the Ukrainians.

[togor]

Even if Putin doesn't care if he lives to see tomorrow, that doesn't mean the folks in the Strategic Rocket Forces are of the same view. Putin also knows that if he issues an order that isn't followed, his rule is over.

This is only to point out that what Putin says goes, right up to the moment it doesn't. And maybe his control over the military isn't as firm as some assume. I doubt very much the secret orders called for a clusterf*ck like it has been every time so far when the Russian Army maneuvers.

The strike near the Polish border was interesting. Missiles, not bombs. Missiles are a comparatively expensive way to deliver ordnance. But maybe P doesn't want his jets in range of Patriot batteries on the Polish side of the fence. The rules for this proxy war are being negotiated as we speak.

Read an article too about the US declining a training mission last fall for guerilla warfare. Sounds bad until it's pointed out that Ukrainians in some ways are now the instructors not the students.

[Art]

And a P.S. This is not going to be Putin's "last territorial demand in Europe."

[dogtag]

Churchill inherited the war from Chamberlain. It was already a done deal
and it put all those out of work people back to work in the arms factories.
No one complained about that

The people don't get to vote on whether to go to war or not.

[Art]

Churchill inherited the war from Chamberlain. It was already a done deal
and it put all those out of work people back to work in the arms factories.
No one complained about that

The people don't get to vote on whether to go to war or not.

People vote on who leads them. Churchill went from nut job to hero in a year. Chamberlain went from the voice of reason to the outhouse in a few months. It's interesting that the Brits turned Churchill out before the war was quite over.
The Nazi's offered Churchill an out and he didn't take it. The Brits were strongly aided by Hitler's insanity in invading Russia and declaring war on The United States after Pearl Harbor. The fact is, if Putin wins in he Ukraine he will be back, its just a matter of when....just like Hitler was when the Czechs decided (with a lot of encouragement from the Brits and the Frogs) to roll over. This isn't Putins's first foreign adventure and it won't be the last.

Things are seldom as simple as they look.

[Vern Humphrey]

Putin is not going to accept any kind of defeat. He'll use a tactical nuke if things get worse for him.
No one is going to join the war on Ukraine's behalf no matter how desperate Zelensky's pleading.

I marvel at the bloodthirstys here who think a country's destruction is worthwhile,
but it's easy to be brave when you're not the one shedding blood.

You must first shed your own blood before you can make judgements like that. The Ukranian PEOPLE are fighting, and fighting bravely. Their fate is in their own hands.