Today's Russian Army would have lost to the German in WW2 ...

[dogtag]

Judging by their pathetic performance against a lesser armed Ukranian
army it poses the question as to why it didn't do better. Was it bad
leadership, ill-trained troops, inferior equipment, what ?
The WW2 Russian troops were in large part, illiterate and were up against
a first class enemy, but they prevailed - aided by Mother nature and the
T34 tank it's true, but they won. eventually.
So, you military guys, what happened ? Was it Nato's weapons that did it?
What will the history books say ?

[Art]

The Soviet Army in 1941 was not a good one. The purges of the late 1930s had stripped it of most of its best officers. The system was hopelessly corrupt and the conscript soldiers lacked motivation and everyone was afraid of the party operatives in the Army. The good part was much of the equipment was good.

The Soviets were saved in large part because an Italian invasion of Greece failed and Hitler had to invade the Balkans to pull Mussolini's chestnuts out of the fire. This caused a two month delay in invading the USSR which was critical and led directly to the NAZIs being checked outside Moscow in the Winter.

The NAZIs behaved like NAZIs which strengthened Soviet resolve, much like the Russians acting like Soviets has in the Ukraine today.

By the late 1942 reforms in the Soviet military were beginning to turn it into a respectable fighting force and by early 1943 it was a force to be reckoned with.

So you're right....as far as the Soviet Army after 1942 is concerned. It was a solid, disciplined, tough and highly motivated force...sort of like the Ukrainian Army today. Unfortunately for them, the Russian Army is too much like the Soviet Army in June, 1941.

[dogtag]

And the Army(s) was large. As General Zukov said when asked about quality;
"Quantity has a quality all it's own"

Origigin, Sir Robert Walpole

[Vern Humphrey]

The Soviet Army in 1941 was not a good one. The purges of the late 1930s had stripped it of most of its best officers. The system was hopelessly corrupt and the conscript soldiers lacked motivation and everyone was afraid of the party operatives in the Army. The good part was much of the equipment was good.

The Soviets were saved in large part because an Italian invasion of Greece failed and Hitler had to invade the Balkans to pull Mussolini's chestnuts out of the fire. This caused a two month delay in invading the USSR which was critical and led directly to the NAZIs being checked outside Moscow in the Winter.

The NAZIs behaved like NAZIs which strengthened Soviet resolve, much like the Russians acting like Soviets has in the Ukraine today.

By the end of 1943 reforms in the Soviet military were beginning to turn it into a respectable fighting force and by early 1943 it was a force to be reckoned with.

So you're right....as far as the Soviet Army after 1942 is concerned. It was a solid, disciplined, tough and highly motivated force...sort of like the Ukrainian Army today. Unfortunately for them, the Russian Army is too much like the Soviet Army in June, 1941.

Exactly right. In fact the Germans engineered the purge of the Soviet High Command in the Tukhachevsky Affair. The performance of the Red Army in the opening months of the war was very poor. hundreds of thousands of Russian troops went "into the bag." Had the Germans not frittered away time in Greece, they might well have won the war before the onset of winter.

[dogtag]

If I remember correctly the Greece business was engineered by "The Man that never was"

[Vern Humphrey]

If I remember correctly the Greece business was engineered by "The Man that never was"

No, that was later. The attack on Russia was in June, 1941. "The Man Who Never Was" was a ruse covering the invasion of Sicily in 1943.

[dogtag]

Well, I was nearly right. At least I got the right war.

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, I was nearly right. At least I got the right war.

And the right country. "The Man Who Never Was" convinced the Germans the Allies were invading Greece instead of Sicily.

[barretcreek]

Had a crazy (by Greek standards) Greek assistant who was fond of quoting Keitel about the invasion of Greece.

https://greekreporter.com/2019/04/06/the-black-day-the-nazis-attacked-greece-video/?msclkid=5a86fbe3b50c11ec9b80adcd2ccaff17

[Vern Humphrey]

Had a crazy (by Greek standards) Greek assistant who was fond of quoting Keitel about the invasion of Greece.

https://greekreporter.com/2019/04/06...80adcd2ccaff17

I hosted a Greek officer one time who was a Greek's Greek. He was always talking about the Glories of Greece.

One time he was telling the story of Marathon -- how the Athenians had watched an army of 30,000 march out, and then saw a single man coming back at a dead run. Pheidippides burst into the city and gasped out, "Rejoice! We conquer!"

I told him "That's the difference between Americans and Greeks. An American would have taken a horse, got there two hours sooner, given a full report, written a best-selling book about his experiences and lived to bore his great-grand children with the story."