SCOTUS decision leaked.

[Roadkingtrax]

Where in the Constitution do you find the "right" to an abortion? Quote the words.

14th Amendment protects a mother's right to end a pregnancy without undue interference from the government. This includes the right of bodily integrity.

What you are asking for is constitutional originalism. A great many things in this country are not defined that way...and you know it.

[Vern Humphrey]

To the others: You note that he SAYS the 14th Amendment allows abortion -- but cannot quote the part that does that.

Now some persons with a poor command of English take Section 1, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." and pretend that section defines "person." As you can see, it actually defines "citizens."

So quote the part of the Constitution that allows abortion.

[Roadkingtrax]

Where does it not say it? I've given you the defined legal parameters.

You missed the 5th Amendment clause as well?

The Fifth Amendment forbids the federal government from depriving any person of ?life, liberty or property without due process of law,? A booger in a womb is not a born person MacBeth.

I'm not following you in to the mud, so the saying goes. You only want to wrestle, not recognize the rights of women (persons and citizens) of these States United.

[togor]

To the others: You note that he SAYS the 14th Amendment allows abortion -- but cannot quote the part that does that.

Now some persons with a poor command of English take Section 1, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." and pretend that section defines "person." As you can see, it actually defines "citizens."

So quote the part of the Constitution that allows abortion.

Quote the part that demonstrates that the unborn are people. In English common law or the founders papers. As JB White once observed, "they're called birthrights."

In any case, police take the lives of innocent people, out of a fear of their own bodily harm. According to the Constitution, this is okay. So cannot a woman with a reasonable fear of death from pregnancy reasonably terminate it?

Vern there is a reason you cannot deviate from your single line of argument. You have placed yourself on a wire above Victoria Falls. Stray but a millimeter from it and it all falls apart. And you know it!

But because you have the blinders on, you have no conception of the world of sh*t that comes with a total ban.


Miscarriages will be a disaster. A woman thinks her daughter-in-law was too cavalier with the jogging or spicy food, resulting in a miscarriage? Her husband knows the DA? Bring in the womb police.

And let's not kid ourselves that sending it back to the states will be the end of it. The states dominated by the big urban population centers, with the exception of Texas, which is under Taliban rule, will have abortion access laws. Does anyone think that the antis will be okay with 50+ % of the population having access to abortion? Hell no! So the battle moves to Congress, and the fighting doesn't stop. If anything it's worse, because as psychologists will tell you, people get mad when something is taken away.

The people cheering this have no idea.

[Roadkingtrax]

Quote the part that demonstrates that the unborn are people. In English common law or the founders papers. As JB White once observed, "they're called birthrights."

In any case, police take the lives of innocent people, out of a fear of their own bodily harm. According to the Constitution, this is okay. So cannot a woman with a reasonable fear of death from pregnancy reasonably terminate it?

Vern there is a reason you cannot deviate from your single line of argument. You have placed yourself on a wire above Victoria Falls. Stray but a millimeter from it and it all falls apart. And you know it!

He's fish in a barrel.

[lyman]

well,

this conversation says civil or it gets deleted,

meaning,

Togor,, you need to slow roll with the hand ringing typical liberal responses

open your eyes,


the rest,, as mentioned, keep it civil,

pages of 'well you didn't post a link or quote of subsection 2, paragraph 5 line 3' type of tripe won't fly either,

keep that crap up and I'll delete it ,




for those that have likely forgotten or are ignoring it, the Liberal Agenda as early as last year wanted a woman to be able to abort the child post birth,

as in, woman has the kid, they sit it on a table to the side and ask the mother if she is sure, and if not, let it die,,

the past VA Governor is on record stating this,, it was part of his agenda that thankfully did not go thru




as an aside, Allen thank you for a post of reason, with out all the drama and exaggerations exhibited by our resident liberal

[Roadkingtrax]

Allen doesn't appear to understand the pregnancy timeline enough to call his post cognizant or reasonable.

[togor]

Nobody is breaking any rules so far as I can see.

And heavy-handed moderating won't solve anything.

If someone insists that an embryo is a human being, then what is its citizenship? If it's born here then it's a citizen regardless of the citizen status of the woman. But if unborn but still here it doesn't get that right? Isn't that discrimination? And isn't it discrimination to give the baby person citizenship at birth but not the mother? Can the Constitution really unravel this?

Yes it's ludicrous but so is the idea of personhood at conception. We're not set up for it any more than we are to just throw open our borders and let whatever happens, just happen. Some ideas are just too radical for their own good.

[lyman]

Allen doesn't appear to understand the pregnancy timeline enough to call his post cognizant or reasonable.

much better than you and Vern going back and forth over nothing,,,

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody is breaking any rules so far as I can see.

And heavy-handed moderating won't solve anything.

If someone insists that an embryo is a human being, then what is its citizenship? If it's born here then it's a citizen regardless of the citizen status of the woman. But if unborn but still here it doesn't get that right? Isn't that discrimination? And isn't it discrimination to give the baby person citizenship at birth but not the mother? Can the Constitution really unravel this?

Yes it's ludicrous but so is the idea of personhood at conception. We're not set up for it any more than we are to just throw open our borders and let whatever happens, just happen. Some ideas are just too radical for their own good.

this ^^^ is drivel,
infact, random word salad drivel,


not heavy handing moderating, it is called actually moderating, since this is a public accessible forum,


mind your P's and Q's,,

[Roadkingtrax]

Spicy Lyman.

[RED]

Baby murderers come up with all kinds of motives. At what age ends the OK murders and the not OK ones start?

[togor]

Spicy Lyman.

He chastises people then proceeds to insult serious posts in a "publicly available forum" nonetheless.

There's no making sense of that, so best to not even try.

[lyman]

He chastises people then proceeds to insult serious posts in a "publicly available forum" nonetheless.

There's no making sense of that, so best to not even try.

you and your liberal hand wringing , doom is near posts are like reading an article in Vox,,

nothing serious about them,, just there to drum up a reaction,


and you know this,

[togor]

2014 article

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-rise-of-the-diy-abortion-in-texas/373240/

The market for these pills is going to perk up. And yes they will try to ban them. The Texas Taliban already have:

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/2021/12/07/414956/prescribing-abortion-pills-online-or-mailing-them-in-texas-can-now-land-you-in-jail/

Nonetheless there will be a black market. Pregnancy as a potential criminal liability in addition to all of the other difficulties and risks.

Will the GOP go to bat for gestational health care? Paid time off after delivery? And other things that would make pregnancy seem less impossible to working women? The magic 8-ball says "Signs point to NO".

So under-the-radar it is.