Is Donbas Ukraine?

[dryheat]

Not everyone wants to bring up the constant fighting that has gone on in the region for years. The two areas (whose names I can't pronounce) have been pro Russia all along. If they were on Putins side why did he do so much damage there? The sea port I can understand. Sea ports are valuable and they can rebuild it. So blow up your peasant supporters. Blow up Kiev. Piss everybody off. Even Russia run by Putin doesn't have the where with all to flatten all of Ukraine. So 5M run to the west and Putin can dance around naked in a small section of Ukraine if he wants to.

[togor]

Russia is fighting on the Ukrainian side of a border which they themselves pledged to respect after the fall of the SU. And it's not like there has been a mass migration of folks in or out of that area in the last 30 years.

So basically Putin is pulling a Hitler when Hitler decided he wanted that part of Czechoslovakia that was more German-speaking. And those Sudeten Germans were less free after the annexation, just as any Russian speakers would be in the Donbas.

And like 1938 there's no reason to believe Putin will stop, except for one: This time the West didn't sell out the Ukrainians the way they did the Czechs. So Russians will have a damaged army and damaged economy when this is over, and face a much more suspicious Europe.

Peace Through Strength has a much better ring to it than Peace Through Weakness.

[bruce]

Give the Ukranians long range rockets set up for conventional warheads. That will let the russians get a taste of what they've been dishing out ... and then some. That will allow Ukraine to break up the russians ability to supply and equip their invasion force. That will give the russians on the ground in russia a 20:20 view of just exactly what they have to face as long as mr. p is allowed to pretend that he can do as he pleases to line his pockets with more stolen money, etc. Cost? It'll cost us money. It'll cost us even more if we don't send the equipment. China is not going to be impressed by a bunch of hand wringing and second guessing. Go ahead and clean mr. p's plow right now. Do it hard. Do not give him an inch of room to save face or anything else. That is the only thing the chicoms will understand. Spend now or pay more later. That's just the way it is. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[togor]

I agree with Bruce--the Chinese are watching without a doubt. And if Russian border towns can't be used as safe staging areas, well that's how it is. By the same token, if NATO air defenses happen to cover a wee bit of Western Ukraine, nothing wrong with that. The only way to incentivize the Russians to peace is to gradually make the war too painful for them.