ROTC Summer Camp, Fort Sill, 1970

[royholl3]

I was there the same summer as DugwayDuke. He is telling it like it was. I especially remember the Honest John rocket debacle; what a hoot.

The truly memorable part of my time at Camp Eagle was my Tac officer, Capt. James Hallums, USMA class of '66, airborne ranger infantry, combat veteran, piss-and-vinegar all the way. You might want to Google his name. He was eventually run out of the Army after he tried to shape up the leadership department at West Point. Capt. Hallums in 1969 also happened to be the Commandant of Cadets at my own school. Since I was the only cadet from my school who was in his platoon, he made sure no one got the idea I was receiving favorable treatment. He was rough on me until we went to the rifle range to qualify (with the M-14 rifle). Somehow I fired 61 to qualify as an expert. From then on, Capt. Hallums was a lot nicer to me. He was even tolerant of the fact that my branch was not going to be infantry, but armor, saying, "it's a ground-gaining arm."

Another incident I recall was a day we were in the field, when it began to rain. Another cadet in our platoon, Herb Mang, said to me, "Did you ever notice how, when it rains, Capt. Hallums doesn't get wet?" It was true.

[Griff Murphey]

Dugway, enjoyed your post! A couple of our guys were at the big O club at the main post when the West Pointers arrived. They came back walking down the company street twirling gray hats - probably just stole them still cool! You could get a pass to go to the O club on the post but I never did - it was about a 30 mile round trip.

Our cadet guide has a picture of Westy addressing the cadets. I always assumed he had been there in 1969. Did you get to see Westmoreland?

We did not have the firepower demonstration in 1970. Maybe ammo shortage due to the war? Maybe they shot it just for the old Gray Line.

I did see it when I was a Junior ROTC cadet in the summer of 1966. A friend of mine and I went at the suggestion of our active army SSgt commandant; in those days the high school ROTC cadre sergeants were ACDU and their summer job was supporting the college summer camps. We wore our Junior ROTC fatigue uniforms which had no US ARMY and an ROTC patch with name tape and we wore the full size sewn on hi viz nco stripes. My friend was a big burly Mexican guy who was corps sergeant major, played the part well; and I was an SFC. After we had been at the firepower demonstration for a few minutes we became aware that the enlisted men sitting next to us were treating us with great deference. We were 17! They thought we were real.

The Honest John had a countdown and "Fire!" - Nuthin... A few more tries then the announcement that due to technical
difficulties the Honest John would not be fired. Spectators were encouraged to look at the equipment on display but cautioned to "stay clear of the rear of the Honest John launcher." Recently told this story to an infantry officer and he laughed and said that the Honest John was a real joke and a totally unreliable weapon, frequently misfiring or malfunctioning.

[DugwayDuke]

Dugway, enjoyed your post! A couple of our guys were at the big O club at the main post when the West Pointers arrived. They came back walking down the company street twirling gray hats - probably just stole them still cool! You could get a pass to go to the O club on the post but I never did - it was about a 30 mile round trip.

Our cadet guide has a picture of Westy addressing the cadets. I always assumed he had been there in 1969. Did you get to see Westmoreland?

We did not have the firepower demonstration in 1970. Maybe ammo shortage due to the war? Maybe they shot it just for the old Gray Line.

I did see it when I was a Junior ROTC cadet in the summer of 1966. A friend of mine and I went at the suggestion of our active army SSgt commandant; in those days the high school ROTC cadre sergeants were ACDU and their summer job was supporting the college summer camps. We wore our Junior ROTC fatigue uniforms which had no US ARMY and an ROTC patch with name tape and we wore the full size sewn on hi viz nco stripes. My friend was a big burly Mexican guy who was corps sergeant major, played the part well; and I was an SFC. After we had been at the firepower demonstration for a few minutes we became aware that the enlisted men sitting next to us were treating us with great deference. We were 17! They thought we were real.

The Honest John had a countdown and "Fire!" - Nuthin... A few more tries then the announcement that due to technical
difficulties the Honest John would not be fired. Spectators were encouraged to look at the equipment on display but cautioned to "stay clear of the rear of the Honest John launcher." Recently told this story to an infantry officer and he laughed and said that the Honest John was a real joke and a totally unreliable weapon, frequently misfiring or malfunctioning.

The only time we saw the Officer's Club was when we rode past it on the way to some training or other. Kind of like the golf course. We got this brochure about what to expect at summer camp. One of the items said we should be sure to bring our golf clubs. We were coming back from the rifle range, riding in a 'cattle truck' when someone shouted out: "Hey guys, there's the golf course. Anyone bring their clubs."

We were pretty much confined to Camp Eagle. In the second week, they had us turn our car keys over to the cadre. (Some cadet had gone to Cache for a beer. So the solution was take our keys.) We got two weekend passes. I only got one. The Tac Officer told me to do something and I did. He pulled my pass because I didn't report back that I'd done it.

It was my understanding that the artillery shoot was a monthly event, more of a publicity thing than for training.

About ammo shortages. I was commissioned Infantry and attended IOBC in 1971 at Benning. At summer camp, they would give us 10 rounds for field exercise. At Benning we were issues so many rounds that we fired them as fast as we could so we wouldn't have to lug them around. For example, I was carrying the gun on a night ambush. I opened the ambush with a 200 round burst. I had linked 3 belts back to back. My assistant stood up and held the belt off the ground to keep it from breaking. It didn't accomplish much. They re-supplied us on the next objective with another 500 rounds.

[Griff Murphey]

Just curious, did you do much active duty? Most of my commissioning class either went to branch school and then to the reserves or were put in inactive reserve status for a few years then discharged.

You were a year ahead of me, you may have gone to Vietnam as a 2LT, Inf.

In 1975 I was sitting in the Wardroom of USS OKINAWA LPH-3 in Hong Kong Harbor I had been on the Vietnam and Cambodia evacuations with BLT 1-4 as their dental officer. The Captain comes on the 1MC and informs us that we are taking on a load of NROTC cadets from Texas A&M on their "summer cruise" and "...they are midshipman meaning they are officers and WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH!"

I was like "What is THIS CRAP!?!?"

[DugwayDuke]

Just curious, did you do much active duty? Most of my commissioning class either went to branch school and then to the reserves or were put in inactive reserve status for a few years then discharged.

You were a year ahead of me, you may have gone to Vietnam as a 2LT, Inf.

In 1975 I was sitting in the Wardroom of USS OKINAWA LPH-3 in Hong Kong Harbor I had been on the Vietnam and Cambodia evacuations with BLT 1-4 as their dental officer. The Captain comes on the 1MC and informs us that we are taking on a load of NROTC cadets from Texas A&M on their "summer cruise" and "...they are midshipman meaning they are officers and WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH!"

I was like "What is THIS CRAP!?!?"

I had an eclectic career. I was commissioned Infantry in May 70. That summer we were offered an opportunity to forgo active duty if we joined a reserve or national guard unit. At first, I joined the 4003rd Garrison Detachment. They transferred me to the Ordnance Corps. The Corps had no slots for active duty for training. Most of my job interviews were over once I told them I had a 90 day obligation for training. I shopped around and found a unit that could get me a training slot. I transferred to the 95th Infantry Division (Training) who transferred me back to the Infantry and I went to IOBC in Feb 71. I enjoyed IOBC and extended to Voluntary Indefinite status.

When I in-processed at Fort Hood, I was asked if I knew anything about rockets and missiles. I told them I had an aerospace engineering degree and two weeks later I was commanding the Corps Guided Missile Maintenance Detachment. The unit was authorized a Major, Captain, and Lt. About three months later, a qualified Ordnance Captain took command and I was reassigned as the Shop Officer. Service with this unit was a three year stabilized tour so I never saw Vietnam.

I accepted a branch transfer to the Ordnance Corps in 1973 and was sent to the Missile Maintenance Officers Course at Redstone Arsenal to learn all about the jobs I'd been doing for the last three years. After a short tour with the 2ID in Korea, I returned to Redstone where I spent the next three years in a project office developing missile systems. In 1978 I left active duty for a civil service job in another project office. I also joined the 279th Signal Battalion of the Alabama National Guard where I commanded a signal unit. After a couple of years, I branch transferred to the Signal Corps. I retired in 1992 from the NG.

Summarizing: I served eight years on active duty and another 14 in the guard. I spent my civilian career designing or manufacturing rockets and missiles. I'm finally retired last year. I had four branch transfers. I commanded an Ordnance unit as an Infantry officer. I commanded a Signal company as an Ordnance Officer. I spent about half my career serving in positions that I was not, technically, qualified for.

We had a bunch of Aggies at Camp Eagle. Some were very good guys. A very large fraction were super troopers who went out of their way to impress the cadre. They ganged together to give each other high ratings on the peer reviews.

[Griff Murphey]

Very interesting and congrats on a great career.

Aggies make pretty damn good military men and have a great deal of highly admirable war fighting tradition. Like VMI it is rated as a service academy not just a university with ROTC.

However, there is a big tradition of hazing which I am not sure they have shaken yet.

[DugwayDuke]

Very interesting and congrats on a great career.

Aggies make pretty damn good military men and have a great deal of highly admirable war fighting tradition. Like VMI it is rated as a service academy not just a university with ROTC.

However, there is a big tradition of hazing which I am not sure they have shaken yet.

I just figured something out about the differences between Summer Camp 1969 and those that followed. In 1969, we were treated like dirt. We didn't get to go to the O Club or anything like that. We weren't in barracks with running water, etc. In 1970, and afterwards, the Army realized that they needed to be nicer and kinder to the Cadets if they wanted to keep them. The first draft lottery was history. Time for a change.

I didn't go on active duty until 1971. I attended Infantry Officer's Basic Course (IOBC 18-71). We were the group to have our entire IOBC under the nicer and kinder.

Previous to our class, every morning IOBC began at 0530 with a roll call assembly. Everyone was marched into the mess hall for breakfast. After breakfast, another roll call, and then the one mile run to Infantry Hall for classes. Run back to mess hall. Have lunch. Run back to Infantry Hall for more classes. After classes, run back to mess hall, have dinner, roll call and then dismissed about 1900. This was the schedule unless their were field problems or range time, etc. Five days a week. Saturday, roll call, breakfast, run to Infantry Hall, classes, run back to mess hall, lunch, roll call, dismissed.

Our class was more like college. You received a training schedule on Friday for the week following. If there were classes, you were given the building and a report time. Ranges, field exercises were the same as previous. Meals at the mess hall were optional which was nice if you had brought your wife and were living off post. No, none, not any Saturday classes. Unless there was a three day field problem (we had maybe three of those), no mandatory classes on Wednesday afternoon. There were optional classes where you could learn to drive an APC, things like that. It was my understanding that cutting out the back and forth runs alone was enough to cut out the Saturday and Wednesday afternoon classes.

[Griff Murphey]

Pictures from the Army album at Camp Eagle 1970

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgSome photos from the 1970 Album the Army produced