Were YOU Ever Ordered to do anything militarily ILLEGAL or IMMORAL?

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  • Griff Murphey
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 3708

    #1

    Were YOU Ever Ordered to do anything militarily ILLEGAL or IMMORAL?

    Not really looking here for confessions about (ahem) serious matters. I'll lead off with a couple of my wuss dental officer whines. On Okinawa, in 1974-5 there had been some serious incidents in Kin Ville outside the gate of Camp Hansen. We had a dental 4-striper Navy captain in charge of the 3rd Dental Company and the story was he was in a meeting with the General where they were discussing the "Ville Patrol" which was an officer and two NCOs (usually one was a staff sergeant or above) who went out to keep the peace in an alcohol and racially charged environment. Well basically our commander volunteered the dental officers (the hospital comany was certainly not volunteering the M.D.'s). So we had all these young dental LTs right out of dental school most of whom barely knew how to salute and they decided to make MPs out of them. Did I mention we were unarmed? It never bothered me THAT much and I always had real good Marine NCOs with me. Also I wanted to shoot in the intramurals so I did not complain too much. But some of the other young dentists were pretty upset about it - worried they'd get busted up in a fight with some drunks and lose an eye and not be able to use their education.

    The other incident (also dental) was at Camp Pendleton. In those days the system for dental was when you got out, you had a year in which (if you knew or cared) you could get all of your dentistry completed. All you had to do was go to the VA, get them to identify the areas left unfinished, they'd verify you had a need then you could go to your dentist and he'd make a treatment plan which was then approved. Most dentists took it since the fees were OK, just slow-pay. The thing we dentists tried to do was make the troops AWARE of this so they could take advantage of it. So we were telling the kids, "You have these large amalgam buildups and you need a crown..." or "...you need a bridge... so use your VA BENEFITS when you get out!"
    Well our 4-striper Captain held a mass meeting and told us NOT to tell the troops of unmet needs because that implied we were not taking proper care of them. I guess they had had some complaints? Anyway I thought both of these incidents were a little shady.
    Last edited by Griff Murphey; 05-14-2011, 12:13.
  • Michael Tompkins
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 276

    #2
    I am sure that these pages could be FILLED with all kinds of examples by Armed Services Recruiters. I found out later that my recruiter lied to me to get me into a combat MOS. 95B (MP) was not my first choice...it was my third. In retrospect, I'm not mad at all. If I had to do it again, I would still do the same thing. Mike

    Comment

    • cwartyman
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2010
      • 472

      #3
      No, was never ordered to do anything illegal or immoral nor was i promised anything untrue by my recruiter. Signed for a guaranteed Mos being an Avionics tech went to that school passed the course, then on to Framp for Integrated Weapons Technician passed that course then got to fleet to find out IWT had been folded into the Electric shop of Marine Corps F/a 18 squadrons. Time frame from going to boot camp to the fleet was 14 months so while I never did what I went to school to do I had not been lied to by the recruiter, things change and I still got to work on F18's as an Avionics tech. Wouldnt trade my time in for anything.
      Mack
      hitler, stalin and mao were progressives in their time

      Comment

      • Kirk
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 704

        #4
        I was stationed at a ATC base. One Saturday evening, I received a phone call from the base Comm center to pick up a message & deliver it to the the Director of Operations, a full Colonel. Upon arriving at the Comm center, a Captain handed me a TS message. I had only a Secret clearance & knew it was improper for me to handle TS material. The Captain was emphatic I take the message & deliver it right now, so, I did. I knocked on the front door of of the Colonel's home about 2030 hrs. He read the message and then in a very profane and rude way asked me why I was bothering him. Since I had no idea of what the message was about or its importance, I could not give him any kind of intelligent answer. It was quite humiliating.
        We ain't come this far just to dump this thing in the drink. What's the nearest target of opportunity?

        - Maj. Kong

        Comment

        • Maury Krupp
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 824

          #5
          Had an Army Motor Sergeant who didn't like the quality of work done on a duce-and-a-half by Ordnance. Told a couple of us to take it out and run it in 1st gear until it "blew up" so he could send it back. Said "No." He took us to the Plt Cmdr for refusing an order. Plt Cmdr told him deliberately destroying government property was a bad idea and we were right to refuse.

          Had a USAF Ops Group commander in Korea try to tell me to run airplanes in IFR weather during a radar outage without the airspace and flight checked procedures necessary to do it legally and safely. Said "No, to do what you want we need radar." We had a back-up radar system but he wouldn't let us turn it on; he was worried that it might break too That little stand for flying safety cost me my job but the airplanes stayed grounded until the back-up radar system was turned on so I guess it was worth it.

          Maury

          Comment

          • pelago
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 582

            #6
            you have to be kidding right, after 26yrs in Marines could write a book about

            shall we say beyond eyebrow raising or questionable orders

            for one, taking or not taking prisoners or treating wounded bad guys

            Comment

            • dave
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 6778

              #7
              No, never had an "immoral" order given to me, in fact they tried to guard my morals and keep me straight! You know off limits areas, etc. Well I fooled them, most of the time! hehehe!
              You can never go home again.

              Comment

              • Guamsst
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 9753

                #8
                One that sticks out as funny to me. When I was the Nightshift NCO, Dayshift passed on through my Airmen that we needed to clean the volleyball court. Dayshift would spend a couple hours a day playing volleyball on the white court with their black boots. They had bypassed me (chickensh%!s) and told my airmen to use the Ether from the laboratory to clean the boot scuffs.

                I told my airmen specifically not to clean the court. We didn't use it. Using ether was a HUGE waste of money. Using ether was hazardous. And most of all SCREW DAYSHIFT, THEY CAN KISS MY BUTT!!!

                By morning, a couple of my Airmen had cleaned the court anyways. When I asked them about it they said they didn't want me to get in trouble. I explained to them that the whole pointt of not tdoing it was so that I WOULD get in trouble so I could take it up the chain. Atleast I felt appreciated.
                I own firearms not to fight against my government, but to ensure I will not have to.

                Comment

                • Dan In Indiana
                  Very Senior Member - OFC
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 840

                  #9
                  Never was ordered to do anything illegal or immoral, it was all voluntary.
                  Dan-Central Indiana Chapter OFC
                  http://www.mtekweaponsystems.com/

                  Comment

                  • Dan Shapiro
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 5864

                    #10
                    How about just plain STUPID?

                    Detailed to rake the sand spit where Gen Westmoreland was going to land during a visit. "Why? He's not going to see squat once the rotor-wash kicks up the dust."

                    Answer: "Well it will LOOK PRETTY as he comes in for the approach."
                    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe, while Congress is in session." Mark Twain

                    Comment

                    • DaveP
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 29

                      #11
                      That's typical- pick it up, paint it or salute it.

                      Comment

                      • DaveP
                        Junior Member
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 29

                        #12
                        I can remember back in basic, in 1964, our drill sgt. told us recruits NEVER to clean our M14s in kerosene. It was flammable, the vapors were not safe to breathe and it bsorbs through the skin, and it was prohibited. After we shot qualification, there were six 50 gal. drums cut length-wise half full of kerosene set up behind the barracks. The next order was "Clean 'em and make 'em shine!"

                        Comment

                        • Guamsst
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 9753

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DaveP
                          I can remember back in basic, in 1964, our drill sgt. told us recruits NEVER to clean our M14s in kerosene. It was flammable, the vapors were not safe to breathe and it bsorbs through the skin, and it was prohibited. After we shot qualification, there were six 50 gal. drums cut length-wise half full of kerosene set up behind the barracks. The next order was "Clean 'em and make 'em shine!"
                          Around 1952 My uncle was told never to use hot water to remove the cosmoline from the Garands they had just been issued. It was prohibited and would NOT be done under any circumstances. Then his D.I. loudly announced he had business to attend to and would not be back for atleast 2 hours as barrels partially filled with scalding hot water were being delivered.....LOL
                          I own firearms not to fight against my government, but to ensure I will not have to.

                          Comment

                          • blackhawknj
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 3754

                            #14
                            The "Illegal Orders/Unlawful Orders" nonsense started in the Fall of 1969 after the MyLai story broke. I distinctly recall my SDI in BCT telling that if you were given an order, you obeyed, if you thought it was wrong you brought that up afterwards.

                            Comment

                            • Michaelp
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 974

                              #15
                              That SDI was just plain wrong.
                              Nobody never, ever gets to put women and kids in a ditch and shoot them.
                              Possibly the darkest day in US military history.

                              The only good guys were in a chopper that landed "guns up" and stopped the mess.

                              That is an extreme example, but common sense does enter into a few military decisions.

                              Unfortunately they dropped the investigation before getting higher ups who were somewhat responsible.

                              Disobeying an order is not to be taken lightly, but we were all instructed on proper POW handling ref "The Enemy In Your Hands"

                              Always some fool who doesn't bother to read the instructions.

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