Were YOU Ever Ordered to do anything militarily ILLEGAL or IMMORAL?

[Guamsst]

The "Illegal Orders/Unlawful Orders" nonsense started in the Fall of 1969 after the MyLai story broke. I distinctly recall my SDI in BCT telling that if you were given an order, you obeyed, if you thought it was wrong you brought that up afterwards.

There is a huge difference between thinking it is wrong and KNOWING it is wrong. I doubt your SDI meant executing civilians. You could probably make that decision without "thinking" about it. I generally have always dealt with people who even when they say "Just do as you are told" or, as we in Air Force fuels say "Just shut up and color" mean that if you have a problem with an order or a job, get it doen then we can take a second look at it. They also always seem to be more than willing to hear you out beforehand if it could involve jail time or injuries/death.

[blackhawknj]

The "Official" Version that I learned in 1979 or so-after I had been commissioned-was:
"An order is illegal if a man of ordinary sense and understanding would consider it so."
As I told my troops:
"An order is illegal if a court martial finds it so."
Because they're going to be the ones making the determination. I maintain the whole idea behind the "illegal orders/unlawful orders" nonsense is to relieve the higher ups of responsibility and put the burden on the lower ranks.
I have studied the MyLai Indicent for some time, once the story broke and the coverup was exposed it was then "investigated" by the Peers Commission which strove mightily to put the heaviest blame on five officers who were already dead. Calley was the highest ranking, and AFAIK
only officer punished, I condem what he did but he was a scapegoat and a fall guy.

[Michaelp]

He was also guilty of murder.
As an officer, he especially, is accountable. what happened to initiative and personal responsibility?
I know a guy in Calley's OCS class.
He describes him as very unfit and unqualified.

at that time they were squirting guys through OCS like crap through a goose.

I signed up for Inf OCS on 1967, and they came around and told us there was a 6 month backlog so I opted out and went on to Abn Inf aIT.

[Griff Murphey]

After My Lai, in the fall of '69, with Army ROTC Advanced Camp at Fort Sill looming in summer of '70, one of our cadre, an Army Captain, gave us cadets several hours on the subject of illegal orders and international laws of war RE Civilians et al. We were tested over it.

Mind you, this same captain had, earlier, told tales of "second story interrogations" conducted in Hueys and mentioned that when we got there we might occasionally see some "bad interrogations, particularly by the ARVNs..."

[gstone234]

A friend and I joined the Marine's on the buddy plan and were in the same platoon in boot camp. While qualifying at the rifle range my friend and I were shooting expert during prequal training. We had been shooting rifles since we were 13 years old. There was a fellow Marine whose shooting station was between my friend and I who was not doing well. Our DI called my friend and me into the duty hut and "suggested" to us that if we saw the other Marine wasn't going to qualify that we could shoot one or two rounds on his target since we had such high scores. On qualification day we didn't have to shoot on his target since he did OK but one other Marine located further down the line was the one who didn't qualify.

[2flasargent]

Not personallly ordered, but -

I was Officer of the Deck, on sea detail. The destroyer had more mechanical troubles than the rest of the squadron put together it seemed. Ready for sea, tested the main engines and engineering reported steam leakthroughs on the turbines (1200 pound system) Skipper wanted to go anyway, and the Chief engineer lifted the safetys. We went home near midnight when everyone thought we were gone. Broke up some marriages, too.

[Griff Murphey]

I understand that once or twice some of the big carriers have had to return unexpectedly due to engineering casualties and when word got out and the ship's whistle hooted there was a mad scramble in married quarters as all of the affairs came to an end as suddenly as they had begun, only hours before. I have heard that men have been chased down streets by other men with golf clubs, baseball bats, pistols, etc.

[mike24d20]

Boomer Widows were a real problem in Charlestown,S.C. in the early 80's.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I was never asked to do anything illegal or immoral. I did ride shotgun on the skivvy girl train each day while I was supposed to be in the hospital. I was more than willing. Once I was on a Race Relations Team, and when I contradicted the base commander's assertion that we had no racial problems in a meeting, I was so close to Laos when darkness fell that they could have thrown me a newspaper. I am certain his desire was to place me in a spot where I was most needed - right.

jt

[Former Cav]

we'd get marched down to the local village in So. Korea in 1966 for an event called "organized graba$$". I have no idea where the money came from, but all the booze was free. You had to get your own "yobo" though!! Near as I can tell, we are all "willing participants".

[martinp]

Ahh I remember raking sand and painting rocks at MCCES at 29 palms, very decorative

[John Sukey]

Keep in mind ALL recruiters "speak with forked tongue"

[Michaelp]

We pulled various details between classes and in SF Training Group.

An OIC from one of the committees came by and took a load of us over to clean up the base house he and his family were vacating.

Not bad as atrocitries go, and we all had a few beers.