crusifix bayonet question

[p246]

I bought a crusifix bayonet for a No 4 mark 1. Were these just issued early on say 1941 to 1942 or would they have been issued later just in small numbers.

[jgaynor]

Cruciform. The other (cheaper) type was a plain spike. Off-hand i would think the spike would have succeeded the Cruciform pattern which was harder to make. Someone should know for sure.

Jim

[Art]

Cruciform bayonets are early issue and fairly rare. The simple spike bayonet, adopted because of cost issues, that succeeded it is by far the most common version.

[Parashooter]

Using a crucifix as a bayonet seems like a hellish idea!

[p246]

Okay let me rephrase I bought two crusiforms and have spikes. I was thinking the crisiforms would be more appropriate on a 41 and 42 No 4 and spikes on 1943 Enfield rifles and later. Or were they still making them into 1943.

[Alan De Enfield]

Using a crucifix as a bayonet seems like a hellish idea!

Handy for sorting out those rampaging hordes of the 'un-dead'

[JB White]

Okay let me rephrase I bought two crusiforms and have spikes. I was thinking the crisiforms would be more appropriate on a 41 and 42 No 4 and spikes on 1943 Enfield rifles and later. Or were they still making them into 1943.

Doesn't quite work that way. The No4 'cruciform' bayonet was approved in 1939. When war broke out in '39 it was realised the machining of the flutes was an unneeded production step. In early '41 is when the paperwork caught up with the approved changes. By very early 1942 the No4MkIII bayonet was also approved for production. So, during that time we saw the No4MkI, No4MkII, No4MkII*, and the No4MkIII BAYONETS. The bayonet sequence has nothing to do with the sequence of rifle marks.

As far as what's "correct"....they all are. Whatever bayonet was available for issue was issued at the time it was needed. One Tommy may have been handed a MkIII while the next guy in line could have been given a MkI when issued gear.

[p246]

Here's a photo of the one I'm keeping. Thanks JB I was under the impression the switch happened rather abruptly, but in war time that's probably impossible.

[Art]

Something that keeps coming up is which accoutrements are "correct" for a given rifle. As J.B. White says, whatever accessory was available for the rifle at the time might be found on it. Ordnance and supply people had much more to be concerned with than matching accessories to rifles by date, especially the Brits who never threw anything away until it absolutely couldn't be used anymore.

I've seen pictures of full length M1905 Bayonets on M1 rifles in the Korean War after the M5 Bayonet was adopted, and long after the M1 Bayonet entered service, both of which were intended to replace it. They were available and therefore were used.

[John Sukey]

The spike bayonet, cruciform or plain, was a seperate item of issue. Therefore you could get either one. The only exception I can remember as when those unissued so called (Irish) No4's came on the market and the bayonets came with them.

[Guamsst]

In obsessive compulsive land the cruciform is correct for rifles up to 42. Just like all those garands and carbines that absolutely must have every part from the same manufacturer. Reality is, as already stated, whatever was on hand, got issued. Oddly, much of the unissued gear is from early or pre war and late 44. Something about the allied manufacturing and supply. I assume the early stuff was on the bottom in the warehouses and that's why it didn't make it out during the war, same thing with 44 dated stuff that didn't make it out after D-day.

Average prices have been around $175-$250 for a good to excellent cruciform, from what I have seen.

[p246]

I wanted to put it on one of my enfields that would be period correct to time of manufacture. Thanks for all the input its snapped on the 42 BSA. I should have bought everyone he had. By the time I went back to look for a forum member the rest were gone.

[Sunray]

Please reduce the size of your pictures. Takes forever to load this page for dial up members.
The Cruciform came before the spike and wasn't being made to be issued in 1943.
"...As far as what's "correct"....they all are...." Exactly. You need all of the bits and pieces that were issued.