WW and WWII Sniper Ammo

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

That's what I was thinking. But maybe he won't say because he didn't come here for an argument...LOL

No argument required, as I can back up my data with military records. My moniker is a result of a lot of research into WWI Marine snipers who were equipped with rifles bearing A5 scopes - Marine A5 Snipers, get it? It was a huge amount of work in an area few seem to find interesting, but I met a lot of nice folks in the process.

jt

[raymeketa]

I shoot long range competition (1000 yards). Being able to hit the center of a 4-foot square target with the first shot still amazes me. Doing it at 1440 yards with rifles and ammunition of the WWI era is outstanding!

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I shoot long range competition (1000 yards). Being able to hit the center of a 4-foot square target with the first shot still amazes me. Doing it at 1440 yards with rifles and ammunition of the WWI era is outstanding!

1440 yards and at moving targets. Witnesses were so impressed that they had an officer and a staff NCO measure the distance and document the witnesses after the battle (all in his personnel file). The sniper himself had been wounded (artillery) and was in a hospital and never returned to combat. The Marines engaged the Germans at 880 yards and decimated their ranks with their 1903's. No German reached the American line of defense in that engagement. French officers (who had just retreated through the Marine lines) witnessed the carnage and were astounded at the ability of the Marines to hit targets at what they considered extreme ranges.

jt

[DMark]

Research not copyrighted yet, but soon..... jt

So it is OPSEC.

Looking forward to reading your work.

Thanks,

Mark

[Johnny in Texas]

Did WW1 Marine A5 Snipers have spotters with them to help Dial them in on a 1440 yrd. target. That is hardly a one shot one kill range even today. I have done some 1000 yrd. shooting and once you are on target it is not that hard to keep it there as long as conditions are not changing to much but 1440 yrds. is "outstanding" as Ray stated. I did not think that the M1 Bullet was even stable at that range.

[raymeketa]

WWI snipers would have been using the M1906 ammunition, not the M1. The maximum range was 3300 to 3400 yards although the effective range would have been quite a bit less. The remaining velocity at 1440 yards would have been about 750 fps, certainly enough to put the hurt on anything it hit.

Although most bullets become unstable at trans-sonic velocities, some do not. Otherwise we'd never be able to shoot at the extreme distances.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Did WW1 Marine A5 Snipers have spotters with them to help Dial them in on a 1440 yrd. target. That is hardly a one shot one kill range even today. I have done some 1000 yrd. shooting and once you are on target it is not that hard to keep it there as long as conditions are not changing to much but 1440 yrds. is "outstanding" as Ray stated. I did not think that the M1 Bullet was even stable at that range.

They were indeed paired as spotter and sniper in four hour shifts in non-battle operations. During the attacks of that day, no spotter was needed to see a thousand advancing men over open ground. To give you some idea of how the snipers were used, they were deployed to the NW end of the wood to take out the machine gunners prior to the last Marine advance. It worked like a charm. Unfortunately, the sniper casualty rate in Belleau Wood was just as staggering as that of other Marines.

jt

[raymeketa]

jt

Prior to WW I, Frankford Arsenal, as well as the major ammunition manufacturers of the time, loaded special ammunition for the Palma Matches. The usual load consisted of a 180 grain bullet loaded to a velocity of 2650 to 2700 fps. Acceptance standards were set at 1000 yards rather than the usual 600 yards for Cal .30 M1906. Have you seen anything that might indicate that the snipers used some of this ammunition?

Ray

[Guamsst]

No argument required, as I can back up my data with military records.
jt

It doesn't matter how right you are, someone will always want to argue when you try to state a fact....LOL

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

jt

Prior to WW I, Frankford Arsenal, as well as the major ammunition manufacturers of the time, loaded special ammunition for the Palma Matches. The usual load consisted of a 180 grain bullet loaded to a velocity of 2650 to 2700 fps. Acceptance standards were set at 1000 yards rather than the usual 600 yards for Cal .30 M1906. Have you seen anything that might indicate that the snipers used some of this ammunition?

Ray

No. From what I can glean, they used issue ammo.

jt

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

It doesn't matter how right you are, someone will always want to argue when you try to state a fact....LOL

You are right on. I really wanted to convince myself originally. I feel confident that individual regiments may have had their own ideas how to do things. I was amazed at the extent officers followed their orders, no matter how insane they were.

jt

[ww2farmer]

I read some where that during WWII, Denver arsenal produced M2 ball and AP ammo was reguarded as the most accurate "issue" ammo, and snipers , designated marksman, etc....sought that ammo out. I personally have shot many rounds of various makes of WW2 production ball and AP ammo through my M1's and I don't shoot well enough to say if any is more accurate than the other.

[George in NH]

Were the "star" marks on the bbl. in the area that was covered by the handguard?
TIA and Merry Christmas! George in NH

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Were the "star" marks on the bbl. in the area that was covered by the handguard?
TIA and Merry Christmas! George in NH

There were no star (turtle) stamps at that time (WWI). The rifles are identified by serial number and some very unique markings. Probably the most faked 03's going. I have never seen a real one for sale on the net. More A5 "sniper" scopes have been sold on the net than there were sniper rifles. I have no idea why people keep paying outrageous prices for those things. I suspect very few of the real ones survived the war (<<100). Of the modified A5's, less than 100 were ever in combat, and only 1 of those rifles is known (to me) to exist.

jt