OK, Here We Go

[p246]

So would you remove the eye piece lens, screw the dim light adapter on, then place the eye piece lens back on? I could see how that might be a pain in poor conditions. Thanks for the picture. I've seen plenty of pictures of A5 scopes but this is also the first I've heard of the dim light adapter.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

The adapter is actually in two pieces that screw together, clamps around that little knurled flange on eyepiece. And you thought that little knurled flange was just for looks, heh?

Jim

[p246]

I thought the knurled flange was well.....for looks. Looking forward to the rest of the story as Paul Harvey use to say. Thanks for that last pic even a big dumb animal like me gets it��

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I thought the knurled flange was well.....for looks. Looking forward to the rest of the story as Paul Harvey use to say. Thanks for that last pic even a big dumb animal like me gets it��

That is the reason for this thread. If you have a question, ask it. If I know the answer, I'll give it.

Jim

[clintonhater]

So would you remove the eye piece lens, screw the dim light adapter on, then place the eye piece lens back on? I could see how that might be a pain in poor conditions...

Hard as it is to believe, I think Rube Goldberg must have been hired as a consultant by WRA or USMC to come up with this needlessly complicated idea. And then, to dream it up in the rush of wartime production! Yellow glass filters are almost as old as cameras, but this is the most bizarre application of the idea I've ever seen.

Would have been mfg. by WRA? If so, company didn't think it a good enough idea to offer on the commercial market after the war, and they were right.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Actually, it was a brilliant idea for the snipers. To my knowledge, it was made by WRA, but I don't know for sure. It was supplied, to be issued with the scope, at the behest of the Horsemen. It is well made, but has no markings on it at all. The lens is held in by a snap ring similar to how the eyepiece is retained in the scope. The information I have does not go into that much detail. One of the photos of A5 scoped rifles, that keeps getting posted lately, has a scope with the attachment installed on the scope.

Jim

[clintonhater]

Actually, it was a brilliant idea for the snipers...

Jim

But there should have been a simpler way to achieve the same result; since the yellow glass can be inserted anywhere in the optical system, an easily-removable cap holding the yellow glass and shaped to fit over either the eyepiece or objective seems a better idea to me.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I don't know the answer for certain, but the Horsemen were wealthy, well educated men accustomed to the best in life. In my mind, they would never have settled for anything less than the strongest, sturdiest device possible. This puppy is built like a brick sh*t house, approaching overkill. But that is just my opinion, and surely there is a document somewhere that explains it all.

Don't forget, the A5, which we continually hear is too delicate for sniper work, was the best rifle scope of its day. These guys handled scoped rifles on a daily basis (check out their individual shooting bona fides), and they knew the foibles of the A5, yet continued to use them, even demand them, for the rifle teams. Their desire was to produce a sniper rifle that would place shot after shot in the same spot, every day, in all weather conditions, in all light conditions, even if the scope had been pulled and replaced in position for any reason. They knew, from their own experience, that the #2 mount with its Springfield Marine Base would not do the job. The very idea of ordering rifles to be so equipped would have been an anathema for them. How much money would they have saved on a 400 rifle order (1st order)? A $1 a mount at most. So for $400 or less, these wealthy men, to whom $400 was chump change, compromised their magnificent plan and settled for a base system they knew would not do the job required? No way in hell.

Jim

[clintonhater]

The adapter is actually in two pieces that screw together, clamps around that little knurled flange on eyepiece. And you thought that little knurled flange was just for looks, heh?

Jim

Clarification, please, Jim: scope in this photo is NOT same one shown mounted on rifle? Or if it is, the original eyepiece has been removed, and this adapter substituted? Because at first I was thinking the adapter was used in conjunction with the standard eyepiece, but that doesn't look possible on closer inspection.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

The adapter is used in conjunction with the eyepiece. To install, one unscrews the eyepiece and removes the little cowling and puts it aside. The (looking at photo) right half of the adapter slides onto the eyepiece from the right. It will lodge against that knurled rim. The left half of the adapter then screws over the left half of the adapter until it is tight. At that point, the eyepiece is clamped between the two adapter halves. Screw the eyepiece back into the scope and you are good to go. You are left with the little cowl that was originally on the eyepiece. Store it securely if you ever want to take the adapter off. Once assembled, it looks quite normal. It takes me less than one minute to install.

Jim

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Clarification, please, Jim: scope in this photo is NOT same one shown mounted on rifle?....

No, the scope in the last photo is one of mine. The scope on the rifle belongs to Tom, but was originally issued to a sniper/instructor named Gunner Steve Estock.

Jim

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Cuban Holiday

Major Garland Fay was transferred to Marine Base, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to Command the 9^th Regiment. Major Fay immediately set about to re-qualify every Marine in the 9^th Regiment. From a pool of Expert shooters, he would initially hand-pick 50 Marines to attend the first OSD Sniper School. He would issue the rifles as soon as they arrived, and begin an intensive range training program for the snipers-elect. No one selected could have a rank above Corporal, with the majority to be Privates. Excellent sniper prospects with greater rank would be given the opportunity for voluntary rank reduction in order to join the program. The sniper program would be voluntary. Captain Fay would pick 50-snipers at a time and range-train them for the SOS School at OSD (Over Seas Depot), Quantico, Va. Keeping each group small would be of great benefit in training. Captain Fay wanted each sniper to feel “married” to his rifle, to know it inside and out. His goal was to train men to place their first shot dead on target, regardless of range or conditions.

The WRA rifles arrived the last week in February, 1918. Major Fay assembled his hand-picked sniper-prospects on 4 March 1918 and issued each his WRA sniper rifle with Mann-Niedner bases attached, a WRA A5 scope in the highly modified #2 scope mounts (known as Marine Mounts), a “Penguin” 8-loop scope case, a yellow dim-light adapter for the scope, and a rubber hood for the scope eyepiece. Sniper range-training commenced the next day. Each sniper-prospect was instructed to put the zero and range data for his individual rifle onto a circular film glued into the lid of his individual scope case. Anyone using that rifle would then have its zero and range data, for both leaf sights and scope, readily available for use.

We have arrived at the point we have sought. How does one prove the rifles utilized Mann-Niedner mounts, and the scope cases to have 8-loops total, 6-loops on the case and 2-loops on the case lid? We will first examine the order for the cases.



This explanation has been presented previously, but I will explain a second time. Note that the order differentiates between the scope case and the scope cap (lid) – “….each case to be supplied with a leather cap….”. Case and cap, two separate entities. Once that sinks in, it is obvious the order is for scope cases with a total of 8-loops – “….each case to be fitted with six leather loops….”. As we all know, the cap has 2-loops, for a total of 8-loops. Anyone who has ever dealt with government bid contracts or orders for materials understand they are written by very adept individuals who typically do not make mistakes. This order is for 8-loop scope cases.

But….that order is not for the “Penguin” scope cases issued on 4 March. Note the date on the order. Anyone can see the dimensions given in the order come nowhere near matching the dimensions of the 8-loop “Penguin” case. I could find no “order” for scope cases of any type in the “Horsemen” communications, yet 8-loop “Penguin” scope cases were issued on 4 March 1918 to 50-sniper prospects at Deer Point. I do not know the source of the “Penguin” cases, nor does anyone else, apparently.

Was the “Penguin” scope case even made for the A5 and its Marine Mounts? Actually, it is a perfect fit in every detail and manner. The case is the exact length (see pictures) to house the A5, the base of the case is the exact diameter for the scope to snugly fit inside, and the upper portion of the case is a perfect fit for the scope and rear mount. They are a perfect match.



Now we will look at a few scope cases that have surfaced through the years, that belonged to snipers present that day in March, 1918. Every single one of them is an 8-loop scope case that contained an A5 scope in a Marine Mount indicating the rifle had Mann-Niedner bases attached. There is a scope case that appears in Brophy that is attributed to a sniper named Pvt. Gilbert C. Chandler, who was trained at OSD very late in the program, that is pictured as a 6-loop case. The picture in Brophy does not show any name on the case, nor the zero film in the inner lid. It is no more than a curiosity at this point, but is included in the spirit of fair play.

As you gaze at the number of scope cases, each traceable to a specific sniper that can be traced using the USMC Marine Muster Rolls on Ancestry, try to envision the effort to fake them all, as has been claimed by one pseudo “expert”. Such a claim is as ridiculous as it is laughable. These scope cases all have different origins, and came to daylight at different times, some decades apart. I traced two of them back to the sniper’s family member who sold them. One of those was the elderly son of the sniper who sold the scope and case for $200 to a man going door to door looking for WWI paraphernalia, which I found very interesting. A good friend of mine now owns that scope case and scope (by chance). The second family I traced doesn’t live very far from Emri. Try it. Anyone can do it.

Let’s look at some known scope cases. With the exception of one or two, these snipers were at Deer Point that day. These scope cases were issued on 4 March 1918, before the “order” discussed above was placed.

Since my quest is to find serial numbers, I will obscure all serial numbers I deem not in the public domain.

Scope case #1: Issued to Melvin H. Vancamp and was featured on a recent Julia Auction YouTube video. Melvin was indeed a Marine sniper.




I reached my limit of 5-pics per post, will continue in next post.

Jim

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

(continued)

Scope case #2: Issued to Gunner Steve Estock. It is now owned by our Tom Jackson, a premier collector. Where is Tom, by the way? I miss Tom’s posts of his magnificent collection.





Scope case #3: Issued to Pvt H. S. Smith



Continued on next post.

Jim

[cplnorton]

Jim that order for the 1000 Marine cases is one I own the copyright to, because it's actually my picture I took of the original document. I have not given you a copy of that picture, nor given you permission to use it. Please take it down.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

(continued)

Scope cases #4 & #5: The first one was issued to Pvt. Max Brunstein, current owner has the original matching rifle. The rarest of all 1903 variations in a compete set and almost a neighbor of mine. The second case is from a scope and case sold on eBay that had the rifle serial number on it. For those PhotoScape challenged, the SN is 6511XX.









Scope case #6: Issued to Pvt. William Wallace Ipson



Continued in next post.

Jim