WWI USMC Scope Case...

[cplnorton]

Jim I could post my exchange with Tom. But that isn't right to Tom.

It's not worth it Kaliman arguing with Jim. He finally has exposed himself as a fraud. Anyone who reads this can see what is happening.

Hes finally admitted hes been saying a lot of stuff without any documentation to back it up.

Almost everything he has said in this post is not correct.

[Ed Byrns]

There is so much noise that I'm amazed the lady downstairs isn't hitting her ceiling with the broom handle.
You guys could wake the dead,which isn't easy here.
Look,I know most of you and this is a Gentleman's forum and has been .
I have spent a good while in the land of documents ,and there can be differing opinions to
how data is interpreted.
The bottom line is that we are Gentlemen,and discuss in a manner that befits us.
Respectfully submitted
Ed Byrns

[clintonhater]

The bottom line is that we are Gentlemen,and discuss in a manner that befits us.
Respectfully submitted
Ed Byrns

You're absolutely right, but even Gents can get carried away.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Jim I could post my exchange with Tom. But that isn't right to Tom.

Tom, I would appreciate it if you intervene here.

It's not worth it Kaliman arguing with Jim. He finally has exposed himself as a fraud. Anyone who reads this can see what is happening.

Yes they can. Got any more unfounded accusations, Norton? You are doing yourself a lot of ill with your tirade. I don't think I have ever seen a grown man react as you have.

Hes finally admitted hes been saying a lot of stuff without any documentation to back it up.

I suppose it is a waste of time to ask where your found that admission? You are neither a gentlemen nor a scholar. I find your actions and comments to be distasteful.

Almost everything he has said in this post is not correct.

Then prove me wrong. That is what eats your guts, isn't it? You and I both know you can't back up all your wild claims. You say you have uncovered all the secrets of the WWI sniper program, that all the books and those who have preceded you have it all wrong, but I have seen nothing to substantiate your claim. Nothing.

I told JB when you pulled that Cody crap that you were a loser. In over ten years on this forum, you are the only person who has lied to me.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

There is so much noise that I'm amazed the lady downstairs isn't hitting her ceiling with the broom handle.
You guys could wake the dead,which isn't easy here.
Look,I know most of you and this is a Gentleman's forum and has been .
I have spent a good while in the land of documents ,and there can be differing opinions to
how data is interpreted.
The bottom line is that we are Gentlemen,and discuss in a manner that befits us.
Respectfully submitted
Ed Byrns

Hello, Ed. You are right and I know it. Thanks for reminding me that I need to be above all the name calling and accusations. I was just stunned to see such a public meltdown. I hope he finds that for which he is searching. He certainly is paying a price for whatever it is. As for the little Troll, I could care less.

I hope your wife is doing well, and you too. And thank you for the wake up call.

[Kaliman]

Jim, I'm not some little troll. Actually, you are just calling me that because I've repeatedly posted numerous examples of you contradicting yourself, and using poor logic in place of legitimate research. I have stated multiple times that I know little about sniper rifles, but much about how research should be conducted. I've asked you multiple times, in vain, to act respectfully and simply address the issues. You have not. You've resorted to name calling and personal attacks while also ignoring any points I've made in regards to the topic at hand. And I have made those points respectfully, while you have failed to do so, and I have provided examples below.

Again, I'm no troll. I'm a Marine Infantry combat veteran. Steve is a friend and a brother Marine, and I'm not going to stand by while some keyboard warrior feels the need to talk down on him, instead of simply having a rational discussion.

Here are my examples of your poor attitude.

the little Troll

public meltdown

in your own pitiful way

Norton's retrograde teeny bobber tirade of streaming insults, you actually have the slimmy gall to tell me to refrain from insults?

Keep on making stupid and unfounded statements.

You are one sad case, Norton

How are your clown college studies coming along?

I think you are losing control, Norton. You sound like a whining twelve year old that has had his feelings hurt. Man up, dude; and get a grip. Please don't tell me you are crying at your keyboard.

Oops. I think I hit a nerve.

Regardless of all that, Mr. Norton, you do need to maintain some semblance of stability during these exchanges.

Never once have I personally attacked you. I've simply found obvious fallacies in your argument, while also questioning why you cannot just have a civil discussion. You've decided I'm a troll because of that instead of simply defending your 'research'. Please post any examples of me insulting, or attacking you as a person. I have not.

[cplnorton]

Yet again we are back to verbal attacks by Jim against anyone who's says he's not correct and still no evidence has been posted to this post other than mine.

By the way the Marines did have campaign covers in France

[cplnorton]

I kept this discussion to just facts till Jim posted a copy of my reasearch because he knew I would take it personal. Which I do.

He needed to devert the discussion away from facts because he doesn't have the documents to post to argue what I'm saying. And I keep posting documents that dispute what he says.

Ed and Clarence you are both researchers and I know Ed has had research stolen before. We have talked about it. And I'm sure you probably have as well Clarence.

It takes so much money and time to find that stuff. Especially when it has never been published before and for someone to just throw it up on a forum when they didn't find it. It's wrong.

I am always very careful to cite where I get a doc. Especially when it comes from another researcher.

Jim is the reason I watermark everything anymore

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

....I'm a Marine Infantry combat veteran. Steve is a friend and a brother Marine, and I'm not going to stand by while some keyboard warrior feels the need to talk down on him, instead of simply having a rational discussion....

I am a 90% service connected disabled Marine Vietnam veteran. I renewed my placard this morning. Calling me a keyboard warrior is about as cheap as it gets, but I am learning to expect that kind of response from you two. You have made a whole series of false accusations and statements, yet you seem to know little about the matter. I notice you avoid responding to my queries entirely. As I stated, you are just trying to stir up more trouble. Not a single post of yours has been about sniper rifles.

If you call Norton's ranting, spewing unfounded and untrue allegations a civil discussion, I want no part of it.

[Kaliman]

Jim, your service disability means nothing to me. Unless it was due to combat wounds, and even then I would not expect someone to brag about that, or use it as a qualifier.

Calling me a keyboard warrior is about as cheap as it gets

You've earned it. You cannot respond to someone questioning your research without launching personal attacks. I've literally posted examples of that. You ignored that post.

You have made a whole series of false accusations and statements

Almost every post I've made has contained quotes of yours to ensure my accuracy.

yet you seem to know little about the matter

Have you read my posts? Apparently not. I've stated multiple times I not very little about the Sniper Rifles. I do know about research ethics, and also how to have a debate while acting like an adult.

you are just trying to stir up more trouble

If asking you to post research to validate your claims, or asking you to keep it professional is stirring up trouble, then I don't know what to tell you. Please post quotes of mine 'stirring up trouble'.

I notice you avoid responding to my queries entirely. As I stated, you are just trying to stir up more trouble. Not a single post of yours has been about sniper rifles.

When have you asked me anything? Actually, I've posted pretty well thought out responses which have been met with silence from you.

If you call Norton's ranting, spewing unfounded and untrue allegations a civil discussion

Norton may be ranting because he gets riled up. No issues there. But you are the only one who has been posting personal insults, seeking to discredit people, and being genuinely rude. It's very clear you have ZERO desire to advance research or the hobby, you just want to be the king. Any good researcher welcomes the opportunity to challenge their theories and sharpen their argument, professionally.

a civil discussion, I want no part of it.

Jim, you haven't discussed this civilly since page 5. I'll repost this once again because you continually act like it doesn't exist.

the little Troll

public meltdown

in your own pitiful way

Norton's retrograde teeny bobber tirade of streaming insults, you actually have the slimmy gall to tell me to refrain from insults?

Keep on making stupid and unfounded statements.

You are one sad case, Norton

How are your clown college studies coming along?

I think you are losing control, Norton. You sound like a whining twelve year old that has had his feelings hurt. Man up, dude; and get a grip. Please don't tell me you are crying at your keyboard.

Oops. I think I hit a nerve.

Regardless of all that, Mr. Norton, you do need to maintain some semblance of stability during these exchanges.

Hopefully you realize maybe you shouldn't be involved here unless you can play nice with others, then we can actually discuss the issues and advance the hobby as adults.

[clintonhater]

Everybody's GOT to have the last word, otherwise others will think they "can't take it"; I know the feeling well. But the details of this dispute are far too complicated, ambiguous, & contradictory for me to follow, and I doubt that many others can either.

I've always wanted one of the commercial A5 cases, but after getting beat out in many auctions years ago, I gave up. (Suspect the bidders always beating me out were probably crooks intending to turn them into fake "sniper" cases.)
At this point, I'm glad I never got one, as now, it would be just one more thing to worry about liquidating in the very near future.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Everybody's GOT to have the last word, otherwise others will think they "can't take it"; I know the feeling well. But the details of this dispute are far too complicated, ambiguous, & contradictory for me to follow, and I doubt that many others can either.

I've always wanted one of the commercial A5 cases, but after getting beat out in many auctions years ago, I gave up. (Suspect the bidders always beating me out were probably crooks intending to turn them into fake "sniper" cases.)
At this point, I'm glad I never got one, as now, it would be just one more thing to worry about liquidating in the very near future.

It's OK Clarence, they can have the last word. Norton's meltdown appears to be over, and Kaliman has nothing to offer but nonsense, and I choose not to deal with classless people.

I've never seen a faked case, but I don't doubt they exist. Before the days of Ancestry, the named ones would have been very difficult to fake, if not impossible. All the named ones I have seen can be traced to actual snipers to whom we can validate were issued sniper rifles. I have traced most of them back to the families who sold them. They were all shocked to learn of their current value. I have one myself, but I would be embarrassed to tell anyone how much I paid for it (way too much).

Have a good one, Clarence.

[cplnorton]

I've never seen a faked case, but I don't doubt they exist. Before the days of Ancestry, the named ones would have been very difficult to fake, if not impossible.

This is not correct either. The Marine rosters have always been accessible at the National Archives. That is where ancestry copied them and published them online. Which they have been on ancestry for many years now.

Before the days of ancestry there were uniform collectors who had copies of the rosters. I used to write one collector and ask him to look up names for me. So copies of the Marine rosters have been floating around for a long time before ancestry. You just had to know the right guy.

As far as serial all you have to do is get a Marine name from the rosters and then order his service record book. Which usually they detail a rifle serial number in his book that you could put in the case.

The problem with this many of those rifle serials, even in sniper SRB's seem to be standard rifles like the one issued in boot camp. I have pulled a lot of sniper SRBs and I have never seen one detail the rifle had a telescopic sight. And most sniper SRB's only detail one rifle serial number which all were issued a standard rifle in boot and should have another rifle serial entered when they switched rifles. So their books should show multiple rifles but I havent seen one yet that shows this.

Just seeing serial ranges of the rifles in their books, and also the dates they went to boot, and knowing when the sniper rifles actually shipped. I now even wonder if a sniper rifle serial was put in their SRB. Or it was just their standard rifle issued in boot.

I'm starting to wonder if the sniper rifles were just like say Machine guns and the serials were kept at a company or unit level and not put in a individual Marines SRB. I'm actually looking for docs at the archives to address this.

Anytime there is money involved some humper is going to hump stuff. And anything Marine Sniper related is worth a lot of money.

[clintonhater]

Almost every Winchester scope sold on ebay, inc. the B models, is described as a "sniper scope." Who's paying such high prices for them except those intending to build a fake "sniper-rifle"? Any substantially original '03 turned into such a fake is in the same category as the sporterized '03s built by Sedgley and others, except for the critical difference that Sedgley was doing his work at a time when the supply of original '03s seemed inexhaustible.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Proposal

I believe the Marines didn't transfer their personnel records to NARA until late 1995. I also had the personnel files searched for their 782 cards for the serial numbers of the sniper rifles. As you have discovered, we found not a single entry for sniper rifles, just their initial issue rifles. It got expensive and I took another tactic. I believe I know where the sniper rifle serial numbers are recorded, but I haven't the physical ability to do it myself, nor the money to pay someone else to do it because I have been building a Land Speed Racer (I do have other interests). Your blanket search will most likely turn them up eventually, but there are 41,000 cu ft of Marine records at NARA. I suggest a compromise. I tell you where to look, and if your guy finds them there, we share the data.

I realize we have been throwing a lot of nonsense at each other, but I am willing to overlook that. I am no slouch at research, particularly figuring out where to look for the data I need. To back up my assertions, and in good faith, I present a sample of my bona fides. The YouTube Video, originally broadcast on PBS and selected stations in NC, resulted from my selection for Voices of North Carolina due to my successful research in the area of thermophillic anaerobic digestion of animal wastes.

The SBIR grants are the most highly sought after grants in the country, and being awarded one is like finding the Holy Grail. I was Principal Investigator for a team we put together consisting of Orbit Energy, Inc and North Carolina State University to investigate if we could produce methane from animal wastes using atmospheric plasma. We were successful in producing methane, but the process was uneconomical. I can provide more examples if needed.

Such a coalition would save you time and money, and I might get more serial numbers. I believe we are all learning that the sniper program was a bit more complex than we originally thought, and it is obvious neither of us has the complete story. My interest is in the Niedner serial numbers only, and I believe those serial numbers will help me further isolate same.

Your response?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZqqUW8ovxw

https://sbirsource.com/sbir/firms/23157-orbit-energy-incorporated

The second website requires a password, but it sometimes goes straight to the information
This is the page

SBIR Phase 1.jpg