Making Sniper out of USMC marked 1903

[jgaynor]

Jim, I have a few comments.

1. The USMC modified perhaps somewhere on the order of 800 to 1000 M1903A1 rifles with 8x Unertl Scopes for sniper rifles. This was done after the Marine hierarchy turned down the original recommendation of a Winchester Model 70 w/ 8X Unertl Telescope.

2. About 1700 Unertl Scopes were delivered before the contract was cancelled in February of 1944 at the order of the Commandant.. The reason cited was the combination "had not proven effective in combat".
At the same time he directed his subordinates to obtain 1000 M1903A4's from the Army when the M1903A1's were exhausted.

3. Their is a comprehensive file of USMC Sniper documentation available reproduced in Senich and through SRS nowhere in that documentation is their a reference to "M1941". Clark Campbell suggests the term may have been coined to refer to the Winchester Model 70/ Unertl combination.

4. Most of the worlds sniper rifles in the WW2 era were equipped with telescopes having 2.5X to 4X magnification. The Germans fielded a few 6X scopes and of course the Marines had the Unertl. But the advantage of higher magnification in a sniper rifle is questionable (at least in the equipment of 60 to 70 years ago). Higher power equalled a narrower field of view and dimmer images at dawn and dusk (some of the specific problems cited with the Unertl). Furthermore a telescope employing a loose sliding mount on the battlefield is ay a disadvantage but then we had found this out in WW1 with the Winchester A5 equipped '03's.

It will be interesting to see what happens in this years CMP matches. Will a modernized version shoot the pants off the competition..who knows?

Regards,
Jim

[blackhawk2]

Jim, Where the 1000 A4 delivered to the USMC....Where there any additional markings added to the rifle to denote USMC lineage..Is the USMC Serial number block known....Thank you for sharing your knowledge...regards....

[Jim In Oklahom]

Jim,

Good comments.

S E M P E R F I

Jim

[6thMARDIV]

Jim,

What Regt. of the 6thMARDIV ? GrandDad was with the 4th Marines on Okinawa.

Scott

[Jim In Oklahom]

I was a rifleman in G-3-29 of the 6th Mar Div.

On this date, June 9, in 1945, my 70th day on the Island of Okinawa, I was hit for the 3rd and last time with a rifle bullet that hit both lower legs. No helicopters in those days. Six hours later I arrived at the 6th Medical Battalion hospital somewhere around Naha. I was somewhat low on blood, but the Marine in the other rack on that 4X4 "ambulance" died on the way.

On the next day I was hoisted over the side of the Hospital Ship RELIEF and had some of the best duty I had in the Marine Corps on the way to an Army hospital on Saipan.

I recovered and rejoined my Company in time to go to Tsingtao, China after the war ended.

The Okinawa battlefield is no more. Where I was wounded the last time is now the site of an Avis Car Rental.

S E M P E R F I

Jim

[Johnny in Texas]

Thank you all for your service!!!

[Greg Ficklin]

Assuming that any modification to a legitimate USMC rifle will hurt it's pedigree, at the same time you will spend a lot of money to make the rifle's collector value to go down. If you can document that the rifle is indeed a USMC with sales slip, or serial number research, it would indeed be a crying shame to convert when there are better options that are cheaper, resulting in a rifle that in looks and performance are identical or better than an original.
If you want a Marine sniper clone, the best option is to buy one from Creedmore Sports complete with Hi-Lux 8X scope.
These look amazing, and shoot as good as they look. No scrounging for parts, no assembly required, no chance of getting burned, or ruining a project (collector) rifle. For $2000 you get what you pay for, and they will stand behind it.
If you build one from a bare receiver, it will cost you around $1500 or more. A clone, is a clone, is a clone. If you clone a USMC rifle into a 1941 Sniper, it is still a clone. The cheapest way to go is to shop for the cheapest 1903, use the wood, and barrel that comes with it, and attach the scope. This will probably be around $1200 by the time you fire the first shot, assuming you go with the Hi-Lux 8X.

[jgaynor]

Jim, Where the 1000 A4 delivered to the USMC....Where there any additional markings added to the rifle to denote USMC lineage..Is the USMC Serial number block known....Thank you for sharing your knowledge...regards....

I don't think so. FWIW SRS records show a number of A4's in USMC Inventory at various museums etc and some of Peter Senich's books show depict USMC A4's in combat photographs.
Regards,
Jim

[blackhawk2]

Sir, thank you for the info....regards....

[cplnorton]

There was a Marine local to us that always claimed he was a sniper on Okinawa and had an A4 with a weaver. He said it was a horrible scope and his would fill with water from the condensation of the heat. He said he tried his best to drain it every morning.

I always figured he was mistaken and he had an 03, not an A4.

It's interesting to know he might have been correct. I didn't know the Marines used the A4.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

The Marines have 3-A4's in the Field Museum at Quantico. I have their serial numbers.

jt

[blackhawk2]

Jim, Does the 3-A4's in Museum, have any identifing marks to denote USMC lineage....thank you....regards

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

They appear to be typical A4's, with none of the usual things to indicate Marine linage. Of course they are behind glass, so one does not get to examine them closely.

jt

[kaleu]

Sir , With your knowledge of the subjet I hope you can ans this question I have been trying to find . The first use of the M1903-A1 with the unertl scope in WW2 . The best I can find is 3rd Marine Div Bouganville Nov 43. By no means am I trying to steal this site just caught your name here . Thanking you in advance , kaleu.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Check your messages.

jt