Early Vietnam Era 03 Scopes

[bigskybound]

I also have a Vietnam-era set of faux shooters (trench gun, Mdl 604 clone AR, .45), so I might want to fit the 03-A4 with a scope from early 60s. Were they still using the Alaskan?

[jgaynor]

The most likely combination in the Vietnam era would have been an A4 with an M84 Scope.

It's possible some with M82's were still around but Ordnance had issued a directive in 1956 stating that M73's (The military version of the Alaskan), M81's and the M82 could be used on an 'exhaust stock' basis whenever the primary scope (M73B1) or the approved alternate (M84) were unavailable. This suggests that by the mid-fifties the inventories of Alaskan based scopes were probably quire small. Would any have been left 10 or 15 years later? who knows? By the time of Vietnam i suspect the primary sniper used by US forces (Army) would have been the M1D. The Marines should have had the M1952 version of the M1C but there is remarkably little mention of that rifle in the literature. Contemporary articles from the 60's mention the Marines using the M1D and a mixed bag of bolt action Model 70's with various scopes until the wholesale change to the Remington 700/Redfield 3X9.

An article by Bob Seijas and Johnny Bell in the Fall 2003 suggests that the number of actual M73 Scopes produced was pretty small and that many of those were upgraded and manually remarked "M81". The M81 with cross wire reticle was pretty quickly dropped in favor of the M82 with tapered post. So the number of M81's around is not terribly great either.

[chuckindenver]

2 A4s are on display at the RIA museum, that have Weaver K4s on top..one was shipped from the FBI, the other from one of the other museum collections..i have pics someplace...
if would say,,M84 or Weaver K4

[Johnny in Texas]

The 60's 70's tm's have the m84 and m73b1 scope

[Col. Colt]

The 1970 M1903A4 Tech Manual I have only talks about the M84 as the issued scope. 1970 makes a pretty long run for a 1940's designed Sniper Rifle! I am still looking for an M84 I can afford, but I do have that manual and picked up one of the M84's special screwdrivers for internal adjustments. CC

[rickgman]

There is good documentation that M1903A4's with Weaver K4-60B scopes were used in VN.

[bigskybound]

Found this over on Snipershide site.

"Here is a picture of a very early production M1903a4 that was a Viet Nam bring back. Rifle was brought back in late 1970. This rifle has the K4-60B scope on it."

[jgaynor]

There is good documentation that M1903A4's with Weaver K4-60B scopes were used in VN.

Could you tell us who used them - US forces or ARVN?
And where can this documentation be found?

Thanks,
Jim

[rickgman]

Jim, The documentation (release paperwork signed by an ARVN officer along with verbal comments by the veteran who brought the rifle home) indicates that the rifles were used by ARVN forces. It is unclear whether this configuration of rifle was used by US forces but that is remotely possible. Certainly plenty of M1D's in the US inventory were equipped with the Weaver K4-60B scope during that period. I believe that I may have an image of the paperwork. Send me your e-mail address and if I can find the image, I will forward to you.

[chuckindenver]

i have seen 2 A4s with bring back paper work. both had no scopes...this makes 3..nice.

[Col. Colt]

If the paperwork exists, it needs to be submited to CMP Competitions to make that a "Legal" scope! Four power would be better than 2.5, of course. CC

[rickgman]

Colonel, Even if legitimate for the VN era, that is not good enough for this combination to be used in CMP Vintage Sniper Rifle Matches. The configuration must be 1953 or earlier vintage. This configuration appears to date from the late 60's - same as the M1D's with this scope combinations (which is also not allowed in this match).

[Col. Colt]

Thanks, rickgman. I was not thinking of the 1953 cutoff. CC

[xarmor]

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party... The rifle and Luger pictured above were brought home by my Father in Law. He was assigned to an MI unit and worked with the Vietnamese on a regular basis. He brought home an M84 scope also but claimed it was not used very much, he liked the Weaver better. I have the M84 but have left the rifle in its original configuration. It is a pretty early build with the original 1-43 barrel, looks to have never gone through a rebuild after WW2.

Shipping docs from RVN

[jgaynor]

FWIW I have a database entry on rifle 3408455 specifying it was equipped with a Weaver K60B.
Unfortunately at that time i was not logging the dates and places where i found the data. (probably the old CSP forum)
But i also have pictures of the same rifle (3408455) with a late model M73B1, and copies of the Vietnamese Export License that i copied on previous posts in 2003 and 2006.