1903A4 safett question

[jgaynor]

" The best laid plans...."

The Lyman Alaskan scopes that were marked TELESCOPE M73 were cross hair reticule scopes
marked Lyman Alaskan as well as TELESCOPE M73 and in s/n range 49XX to 5300 not inclusive.The bevel is slight but the corners are sharp with the Lyman Alaskan was not in use in on A4's except for the 150 M73 marked scopes and most of those were remarked M81 and would have ended up on M1C's . The 330C /M73B1 was the official scope and the only scope in the supply chain until the 1903A4 production had ended in Jan. '44. I have never seen an Alaskan pictured in a TM for use on the A4 only the 330C/M73B1 and the M84.

The thread basically dealt with the genesis of the design of the scope mount. While the Alaskan (later militarized as the M73) was never delivered in time for A4 production it was ordnance's intention to use it and the Weaver from the get go.

The Alaskan and the Weaver 330C were the two scopes recommended in the report of the subcommittee (12/42) that finalized the design for the A4.
The Alaskan is also mentioned as an alternate in TM-9-270 although no pictures appear. (6/43)
The Alaskan and the Weaver are also illustrated on A4's in TM9-2200 (Oct 43).
Finally in 1956 ordnance issued orders authorizing the use of any remaining M73's, M81's and M82's on an "exhaust basis".

Lyman was supposed to deliver 700 Alaskans starting in September 43. Eventually a total of 24,565 were to be delivered. The Weaver contract for M73B1's was terminated as of Nov 43.

However fate stepped in. Lyman was getting its lenses from Bausch and Lomb who were busy with other, presumably higher priority, war work. As a result Lyman got no lenses and no Alaskans were delivered in time for A4's even though the rifle had been designed to accomodate them as well the 8 or 9 minor variants of the Weaver type scope.

Ordnance had to reverse its position with Weaver who then continued making M73B1's up through 1945 as spares.

The few M73's that eventually materialized were as you said used on M1C's. Experience with the Weavers illustrated the need for modifications (the eye shield and sunshade) so the M73 had a short life - The Alaskan quickly became the M81 (crosswire) and then the M82 (post). The M84 wasdesigned to be truly moisture resistant and while adopted in 1945 probably didn't really see the light fo day until well after WW2.

Most of this information can be found on the net. TM 9-2200 (10/43) is a little hard to find so the picture showing the A4 with both scopes is attached below. Note the manual's caption writer screwed up the descriptions.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Jim

[Johnny in Texas]

jgaynor thanks for setting the fact straight I was working from memory. I have seen pics of M1903A4's in the S.A. museum with M81 M82 and M73 a well as M73B1 and M84. I know the thread is about the safety but I thought these guys who want to build a FauX A4 might want to know the real story about the scopes rather than the Legend! You gave a great explanation as well as the reality about Lyman not having the glass to produce the scopes in '43. My point is that the Alaskan /M73 is the least likely scope to be issued on the M1903A4. They are now the easiest and cheapest to come by so the Legend of the Alakan being correct for the A4 lives on.

[pelago]

here i one for the history guys

parrallax, (SP) when did it come to play on long distance accurate rifles, or did it during WWII

i know on the lyman alaskan i have, when sitting on a bench and not touching rifle movement of head moves impact on target cross hairs, consequently same cheek pressure has to be or has to have been a issue with early rifles

[Johnny P]

All rifle scopes have parallax, and can be set to be parallax free at one distance. The parallax occurs when the image is focused either ahead or behind the reticle, and this is why the image moves when the position of the eye moves. Most scopes up to about 9 power don't have parallax adjustments, but as the power goes up this becomes more critical. Either a focusing ring on the front of the scope or a side adjustment is provided to eliminate the parallax.
If the eye could be precisely placed each time, the parallax would not be of as much concern.

[pelago]

If the eye could be precisely placed each time

i agree, but i was just commenting on this, and during the war i wonder what was taught for usage of this rifle

i shoot a 1903 with a douglas barrel and it has a 22 pwr unertl, i adj for parrallx with the scope, but it (scope) had that built in, depending on how i read the wind, i can hold ten ring at 1k yards with this scope. but this is a different animal than a WWII 1903A4

[Johnny P]

Parallax was the same then as now. Due to the low power of the scope it was not as much of a problem, but was present. The shooter could have set his scope to be parallax free at 100, 200 or whatever yardage he preferred, but it was not readily adjustable. As mentioned the problem gets worse as the power goes up, so your Unertl scope has a focusing ring on the front to eliminate parallax at the distance you are shooting.
The Leupold Mark 4 M3 has side focusing for parallax adjustment.

[pelago]

no argument at all!!
and it is amazing how well the parallax can be adjusted out of the picture

the unertl is used with a family gun and that is a 1903 heavy barrel rifle been in family for many many years

I have shot this 03 in competition and it shoots quite well, i was able to shoot a clean at 600 with lyman 48 sights shot a 200/12...

when the unertl added it really can shoot well, my grandfather built this rifle and he used a old style adj sling attach using steel plate with adj threaded holes to move sling swivel, it took a piece of rod, threaded it and adj it with file to accept harris bi pod. did it without modification of the original rifle
Man, when i put the bipod to it and got prone it really became quite a rifle, barrel is original douglas from 30's great numbers on guage and it does shoot, has the buttplate of the times Neidnor (sp) and it can be a shoulder cruncher, but that was what was done in the 30's, i have not shot it with bipod at any longer than 600, but with the unertl scope at 22 power can read mirage and put crosshairs to adj for windage and keep the rounds in X ring with not too much difficulty.

i am looking forward to shooting the "forged" 03A4 with Hornady loads, same ones used at Perry, and i have made up some of what i think is damn close to the same round with nosler bullets

should be fun

[jgaynor]

Pelago, johnny's explanations of parallax are right on the mark. If its really noticeable on your Alaskan you might try adjusting the focus.

1. Position the rifle so the scope is pointed toward a clear view of the sky and loosen the focussing locking ring.
2. Hold your head away from the scope and look at the sky to relax your eyes.
3. Then look quickly thru the scope and adjust the eyepiece back and forth.
4. make the adjustments in small increments pulling your eye away from the scope and looking at the sky to relax your eye.
5. when the reticle is in sharp focus tighten the locking ring.

Lets us know how you make out.

Jim

[pelago]

i have done that, and as of yet have not really shot it, the rifle shot well, now probably this week will start with the scope.

want to get a good zero at 200 yards, then make a card out as far as i can go, can shoot up to 1k at butner, but probably will never shoot it longer than 600

especially want to be ready for the "Vintage Sniper" match next spring, and i have duplicated as close as possible the Hornady match Garand ammo that CMP issues, i have found that this is pretty good stuff and all of my military rifles shoot real well with this amm, i think i have duplicated it