6.5 Creedmoor brass observation.

[BlitzKrieg]

Oh yes, forgot to mention 308 Federal Brass. Shortest case life of any 308 brass I own
and that holds true if shot in my M1A or my Tikka 308 long range bolt rifle. Sadly, before
I knew about Fed brass primer pockets loosening so fast, I bought a ton of Fed brass and
it was a deal too good to be true and now I own a lot of it.

I use it only for M1A with 2 reloads and toss the Fed brass. If you pulse around you will find
4x is the most often reloading life of 308 brass in a M1A. I am glad to get 2x use out of my
Fed 308 1x fired brass. and for the record, I only shoot that M1A at 800 and 1000 yds and
any brand of brass has loose primer pockets before 4th reloading. My load for 308 is the military
Mk 316 Mod "O" which you can look up on internet but it is a 175 SMK pushed by 41.745 gr of
IMR 4064. That is the military developed load and its lights out accurate in all my 308's at
800/1000 yds. Now...does 42gr work ...? I am told it does but 41.745 gr is the military load
and that is precisely what I weigh with my Sartorius scale which can weigh 41.745 grains precisely.

[JohnMOhio]

Thanks BK. That pretty much gives me a early warning. I have been toying with the idea of getting into this long range shooting. Thinking about obtaining a rifle for it and was looking at the 6.5 CM and also this new 300PRC. As this will most likely be the last rifle purchase, ( I am 78 years old) it is difficult to make up my mind as I have not come across anyone currently shooting the 300PRC to get their take on it. Besides the larger case capacity and bullet size, is there really an advantage of one over the other in performance. How about you? Can you give me info on the 300PRC?

I sure would like to see that scale you have. That has peeked my interest as I have not heard of that brand.

Couldn't wait for you to possibly post a photo. Looked for the scale on the internet. I can see why it is not a product commonly found on some of the retailers shelfs such as Midway. Appears to be in a class all by itself. Maybe Santa will be good to this old man next year.

[JohnMOhio]

BK, what you wrote about brass life in the M1A I have heard numerous times and several times in print. It seems to be in the nature of the beast I suppose. As a teenager I had my sights set on getting a M1A but somewhere along the paths I had chosen I got hooked on the 1903 and 1903A3 and then jumped the the Garand. Don't regret the path I took. Now the path seems to point me to long range shooting. Did a great deal of it in New Mexico when I was in the service shooting Jack Rabbits on weekends during the summer. It was fun times then.

[fguffey]

So beyond primer pockets growing loose after 2nd reloading, I had to cull Fed brass by weight in order to get the best performance out of them, otherwise I'd get flyers all the time and that was because of pressure variances in Fed cases ...far far more so than Hornady cases.

Many years ago I purchased cases from Pat's in Ohio, the price was from 7¢ to 11¢ each. The cases were pull down 30/06 LC match. I purchased at least 4,000 unfired cases. At the same time I purchased cases for 1¢ each because no one wanted to spend days tumbling to clean. After all that effort I did not fire a case that was not formed from a 30/06 case. I never looked for a case that had an exemption on maximum loads but there was a reloader that claimed he fired cases 43 times with maximum loads with out the case showing any effects. What a waste of time; he did not/list the manufacturer of the case☺?

Back to shooting cases formed from 30/06 cases; Once the forming die is paid for cases cost me 11¢ each. If I owned one forming die it would be the 308W die, if I owned 2 forming dies the second would be a 243W forming die, I own 16 forming dies, there are a few I can not do without.

A friend/smith built bench rester rifles, one was a 308 W/7.62; one of his customers was not happy so the builder called me for an explanation. First I asked the builder about accuracy, the accuracy could not be improved upon. I found the proud owner was not happy with the fired cases, he was complaining about loose necks. My old friend and I dug through thousands of cases for matching case heads. I settled on 30/06 LC MATCH, I formed the cases to 308W but did not ream the neck or reduce the outside diameter of the case neck. Accuracy did not improve but the proud owner was happy.

F. Guffey

[BlitzKrieg]

The problem with the very highest grade of scales is you find it painfully tedious getting each load exact.
To the point of using tweezers to get exact ...really atomically exact weight charges. I'd say its as enjoyable
a reloading experience as pulling single hairs out of your nose.

Now does precise powder charges contribute to long range accuracy: Yes. For precision shooting at long range it does pay off , as does using best components in your hand loads.

Its a slippery slope this handloading for precision and accuracy...finite accuracy. The bench rest shooters know it takes a ton of time. Here is where I draw the line : I will not turn necks, I will not point bullets or re cut ogives, I will not weigh primers, I will not uniform primer pockets, I will not buy Berger or Lapua bullets nor use Lapua brass. Those procedures listed are more pain and I don't need to consider them because my rifle and I are as accurate as we are, others who are far younger might benefit from those procedures but I won't see the difference in accuracy. As to Berger and Lapua: I can't shoot those components better than I can shoot Hornady , Sierra and Nosler bullets seated in Hornady brass. So, I prefer to take the "production grade" bullets and be satisfied with results.

Berger / Lapua people: I see then on the 1000 yd line about every 6 weeks. I am on the 1000 yd line every weekend. I'd say I shoot 9 x the number of shots than they do and I am good with .8 MOA accuracy vs .5 MOA accuracy that the Berger / Lapua components can bring it. The difference to me is immaterial but make no mistake, Berger / Lapua make bullets that fly better, Lapua brass is primo stuff.

I shoot a lot , I shoot cheaper than Berger / Lapua people. I am good with how things are and I am not adding any more steps to get better hand load performance. One of the seriously credible long range shooters once told me " There are 12 steps to bench rest accuracy hand loading, 2 are BS and we don't know which 2 that is". This from a guy that took 8 hours to make 100 rds of NASA grade long range loads that were blazing accurate.

Well...others are great and I am half good but I'm good with how things sorted out on accuracy.

[fguffey]

lyman


guffey,

you did not state what the changes were if any after firing

I thought the cases were magnificent in appearance, I was on the third round of shooting before I was told the cases had a recall notice. The recall notice was for the complete year.

I did not need the cases so I moved the cases to the collectable drawer. After that I included the cases from the next year just in case they missed something. They did not want to miss any mistakes so they recalled the complete year.

I have been asked to clean out shops that belonged to friends that knew they did not have long to live. One of them had a good supply of the recalled cases, I added them to my collectable drawer. Again, the cases were magnificent looking cases after they were run through a tumbler.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

you did not state what the changes were if any after firing

I assume reloaders understand when cases are annealed the outcome is predictable. My cases did expand when fired; I should not have to explain to a reloader when the case head does not expand when fired the case head is not soft.

When the annealing process leaves the case heads too hard the chances of case head failure increases. I want my case heads to expand; the one thing I can not get a reloader to agree with is 'by how much'. If my cases heads expand I know they are not brittle/too hard. (back to how much?)

Ever time the subject comes up reloaders want to tell me every thing they know about reloading.

And that reminds me of Marcus Fabian Quintillion; his students called him 'the Mighty Quin'. He would have been an outstanding INTERNET reloader.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Marcus Fabian Quintillion

One of the first paid teachers by the Romans. And for those that wonder Marcus was Greek.

I give Marcus credit for the Greek joke; ISO,ISO and "I am Thor!".

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Marcus was ahead of his time by 2000 years +. He was a teacher of rhetoric. He would have been one of the greatest reloaders the world has ever know. A teacher of rhetoric did not have to know anything about what he was teaching, his job was to convince others he did.

F. Guffey