.357 Mag loads gone awry

[Liam]

Yes. I am new to straight-walled reloading. I have Lee carbide die set. The Starline brass slides right into my .357 case gauge as it should. I bell the cases, load powder and set the bullet (Berry's plated flat point). No lube anywhere, as these are carbide dies. Sometimes my alignment must be off because the bullet sort of bulges on one side. With more care, the seating goes better. However, the end result will not fit into case gauge. So, I run through again increasing the crimp in hopes of slimming the profile to fit in the case gauge. These three are examples of what is happening when I try to use tighter crimp - a series of waves on the shell. I hope it is visible. While I wait for a Lee Factory Crimp die to arrive, is there anything to be done. Or, done differently than I am doing? I followed the parameters outlined in the documentation from Lee. Any thoughts are welcome.
IMG_1372.jpg
IMG_1373.jpg
IMG_1374.jpg

[Parashooter]

I suspect you are trying to crimp too much. Start with just enough to straighten the "bell". Then add a little more (1/16 turn = .0045"), being careful that the bullet's crimp groove aligns with the case mouth. (It's helpful to back off the seating stem once the groove is aligned; after the correct crimp is set, adjust the stem back down to the bullet.) You should find a point where any more crimp would make the case buckle ("waves"). Back off a hair and that's the maximum crimp your bullets and brass will allow.
All this assumes your cases are of uniform length. If not, trim them all to match the shortest one.
And ditch the case gauge. Test cartridge fit in your actual chamber(s). That's where you're going to fire them, not in some gauge that might not be right for your firearm.

[lyman]

sounds like the crimp die is compressing the shell a bit (causing the waves)
may want to raise that up a hair,


no sure how you set it at first, but you want it to just crimp on the bottom of the stroke

also, you just want to bell the case just enough to help start the bullet

[Liam]

Too much bell! The shells weren't long. The seater/crimp die was catching on the excessive bell. I found the right bell setting and locked it in place with a locking ring as not to change in future. As for seating a little askew every now and then,...the Lee seating die has the adjustable depth for seating bullet. Well, that seating plug is concave where it touches the bullet during seating. For use with round-nose bullets, by default, I guess. My flat nose bullets can go astray on occasion if I am too speedy. Next time will buy round nose bullets. Learned a little bit from this. Grateful only 5 or 6 rounds were wasted. Thank you both for your informed thoughts on the problem.

[lyman]

[fguffey]

sounds like the crimp die is compressing the shell a bit (causing the waves)
may want to raise that up a hair,

The old case wave; I say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back and then there are those that are so good they can bump it back.

No one ever notices I always say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back with a die that has full case body support. And now you guys are making waves while crimping.

I know you guys do not believe I ever make an effort to agree, at this moment I am waiting for someone to explain the wave. I have turned cases into cases that looked like accordions; I am the only reloaders that understands I moved the shoulder of the case back when turning the cases in to cases that took on the appearance of an accordion.

F. Guffey

[Johnny P]

As others noted, very easy to wrinkle a straight walled handgun case. Case is thin and not fully supported in the crimping die, and if too much crimp is dialed into the die the metal is going somewhere.

Set up your seating depth before you adjust for crimping. Once you have the correct seating depth back off the seating stem and slowly adjust the crimp. Once the crimp is adjusted screw the seating stem back down.

[lyman]

The old case wave; I say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back and then there are those that are so good they can bump it back.

No one ever notices I always say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back with a die that has full case body support. And now you guys are making waves while crimping.

I know you guys do not believe I ever make an effort to agree, at this moment I am waiting for someone to explain the wave. I have turned cases into cases that looked like accordions; I am the only reloaders that understands I moved the shoulder of the case back when turning the cases in to cases that took on the appearance of an accordion.

F. Guffey

you realize there is no shoulder on the round in question, right?

[fguffey]

The old case wave; I say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back and then there are those that are so good they can bump it back.

you realize there is no shoulder on the round in question, right?

Do you realize the seating/crimp die does not have case body support? Do you realize Dillon said seating and crimping at the same time is a bad habit. Long before that are you aware it was decided crimping could be a bad habit? Do you have a clue why someone decided crimping while seating was a bad habit?

Many years ago I had a Piggy Back one and two, both had 5 positions. that means nothing to anyone today but back then I could seat on one position and crimp on another. And then one day I decided to visit Dillon; they suggested I purchases their RL550 press with Dillon dies.

I explained to them if I had to start over on dies I would keep my old presses, I explained to them I used a lock-out die, to use a lock out die I had to have 5 positions because I seated on one position and crimped on another.

They gave me permission to use their press and my dies but still I will not load on a progressive press without a lock-out die.

F. Guffey

[lyman]

Do you realize the seating/crimp die does not have case body support? Do you realize Dillon said seating and crimping at the same time is a bad habit. Long before that are you aware it was decided crimping could be a bad habit? Do you have a clue why someone decided crimping while seating was a bad habit?

Many years ago I had a Piggy Back one and two, both had 5 positions. that means nothing to anyone today but back then I could seat on one position and crimp on another. And then one day I decided to visit Dillon; they suggested I purchases their RL550 press with Dillon dies.

I explained to them if I had to start over on dies I would keep my old presses, I explained to them I used a lock-out die, to use a lock out die I had to have 5 positions because I seated on one position and crimped on another.

They gave me permission to use their press and my dies but still I will not load on a progressive press without a lock-out die.

F. Guffey

do you realize you are arguing with yourself?

[J.J.]

One of the problems you are encountering is you are trying to crimp a bullet without a crimp groove. Berry's #84525, the bullet you are loading does not have a cannelure, or crimp groove that you need to keep the bullet from jumping in a .357 mag. load without ruining the bullet or cracking the plating. With a crimp groove you can put a pretty heavy crimp on a .357 case without much trouble. I believe Berry,s #72843 is the same as #84525, but with a crimp groove.

[Major Tom]

I've had .357 cases go 'wavy' too but not as severe as yours. They would chamber in my revolver, all went 'bang' with no issues and the waves were ironed out OK. I use the Lee factory crimp dies and in other reloadings I use the slightest roll crimp possible.

[fguffey]

Do you have a clue why someone decided crimping while seating was a bad habit?

If you do not know the answer and or if you do not understand the questions just ask someone for help.

You started out by asking me if I understood there was no shoulder on the 357 Mag case. I thought that was rude but I have grown used to that kind of behavior.

do you realize you are arguing with yourself?

Start over; wavy cases, the answer to that questions is answered by explaining the absence of a die with case body support.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I use the slightest roll crimp possible.

If i use a crimp I only use a hint of a crimp. I am the one that uses all of the bullet hold I can get.

As I said in the old days crimping was considered to be a bad habit. It was possible to loosen bullet hold with too much crimp. And then there is that problem with crimping the bullet to the case while the bullet is being seated (moving whole crimping). The waves?/wrinkles/ ugly cases are created when the case digs into the bullet; in the perfect world the seating operation must stop before waves are created (wait for it, here it comes) unless a seating die with case body support is used.

And then one day I gave some of this stuff a little consideration, I made a seater, it had no die body, I used the seater in a bottle top press, I was impressed, I sent one to the most admired reloader on the Internet.

F. Guffey