Bad reloading decision

[cwbuff]

In the this case the case head did expand. After the fired the cartridge, he could not open the bolt on the rifle - resulting in a trip to the gunsmith. The gun checked out with no damage. It is a Steyr Mannlicher-Shönauer 1903 Mountain Carbine. I'll take a pic of the standing cartridges today and post them. I'll also put the calipers on the case heads.

[cwbuff]

For someone to use the wrong size bullet, when it's published as plain as day in every reloading manual, is just plain stupid! Yep I said it, STUPID and remember you can't fix stupid. Any time you reload any cartridge, double check your components, measure and weigh each component so there is no chance of making a very costly and stupid mistake that could cause harm to others and yourself.
Matt
Matt

He had read on the web that some barrels on this gun were over sized and to use the larger bullet. So that is what he did. But he did so without slugging the bore to see what the barrel diameter actually was. DUMB - but lucky.

[cwbuff]

Pics of cases standing up

Good case on left, bad case on right
Good(L)-Bad(R)..jpg

[Hefights]

Wow, looks like it expanded and stayed that way, never "shrunk back" a little to allow extraction. So it just stayed "stuck to the chamber". You learn something every day.

[cwbuff]

Here are some case dimensions:
Case head: good=0.451", bad=0.474" to 0.484" (not round)
Primer pocket: good=0.205", bad=0.235"

[leftyo]

put enough pressure to it, and brass will flow wherever it can from any part of the casing that isnt 100% supported.

[Matt Anthony]

He had read on the web that some barrels on this gun were over sized and to use the larger bullet. So that is what he did. But he did so without slugging the bore to see what the barrel diameter actually was. DUMB - but lucky.

Yes, he missed the part of slugging the barrel, and that was a big mistake. One of my problems with the web is there are many subjects that are stretched to the point of rediculousness! Should one believe what is published on the web? NO, read a fricken manual before you go half cocked over some tall tail that some arm chair expert types out as gospel.
For GOD'S sake, don't believe anyone, check out published loads using more than one manual so you can see if you have a misprint and buy software such as Quick Load to further your reloading practices in a safe manner.
Everyone makes mistakes, but mistakes can be avoided if you think before you act, so for the love of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, just do that, Think Before You Act!
Matt

[cwbuff]

I don't know how much pressure that case withstood, but it must have been quite high. It speaks volumes about the quality of RWS brass.

[fguffey]

How do you determine the beginning of high pressure? The answer, no one measures.

There is case head diameter, there is case head thickness, there is primer pocket diameter and there is flash hole diameter. I have a flash hole gage. I have tested suspect receivers with test loads that had the same appearance as the case heads posted by the OP.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I have tested suspect receivers with test loads that had the same appearance as the case heads posted by the OP.

With one big exception, the case heads got hammered, the hammering flattened the case head to the point is was difficult to read the head stamp. A shooter borrowed a rifle from a friend, purchased ammo then proceeded to the range. After the first shot he went to a smith for help in extracting the case. Seems he purchased 308 W ammo for a 25/06. The case head was flattened to the point it could not be read. The smith suspected a mistake was made, he asked to see the receipt for the ammo and what was left (19 rounds) of the new box of ammo,

Point: If the sales slip read 25/06 and the new box of ammo was 308 W blame the sales person, the sales slip and new box of ammo agreed, both were for 308W.

F. Guffey

[Johnny P]

This always reminds me of the guy that chambered his 6.5 Arisaka chambered for .30-06. He said it kicked like hell, but the .308 bullets made it down the .264 barrel. The American Rifleman got the rifle and showed bullets fired through the rifle which were almost 2 inches long after being squeezed down.

I agree that most cases I have seen with blown primers have most of the case markings wiped off.

[fguffey]

Johnny P.
This always reminds me of the guy that chambered his 6.5 Arisaka chambered for .30-06

Kicked like a mule, the pressure was equal between the front of the chamber and the rear of the chamber, no recoil, then the reduced diameter of the barrel would control gas escape like an orifice. Those that have made mistakes normally recognize a difference in sound and less recoil. Those that make and design bullets walk the range.

The shooter that fired the 308w in the 25/06 started another rumor about the bullet and how long it was when it left the barrel. I disagreed, the difference in the three hours it took to remove the case and destroying the rifle was the choice of bullets. Had he spent a few more dollars for a box of ammo with good bullets he would have destroyed the rifle.

Factors and off the lands, the 308 W had a jump meaning it had a running start. Time as a factor, had the 308 W bullet been close the lands he would have destroyed the rifle.

F. Guffey

[Matt Anthony]

This always reminds me of the guy that chambered his 6.5 Arisaka chambered for .30-06. He said it kicked like hell, but the .308 bullets made it down the .264 barrel. The American Rifleman got the rifle and showed bullets fired through the rifle which were almost 2 inches long after being squeezed down.

I agree that most cases I have seen with blown primers have most of the case markings wiped off.

I sure wish you could find that article and post it here as Mr. FG doesn't believe it happened, he called it a rumor. I remember FG years ago on this forum, he left for years. Better to just ignore him, than try and make sense with his rants.
Matt

[fguffey]

I sure wish you could find that article and post it here as Mr. FG doesn't believe it happened,

Matt Anthony, are you that desperate for attention?

A picture of two case heads . one fired with normal pressure, the other fired with excessive pressure and designed to lead members to believe the excessive pressure had no effect on the case head stamping.

I have test fired receivers that were believed to be suspect, the case heads compressed and increased in diameter, the flash hole increased in diameter, the primer pocket increased in diameter, at the same time the case body locked onto the chamber and because you are so desperate for attention tell me what happened next.

I have Japanese rifles, two are in parts, have you ever taken a Japanese rifle apart, it is something like seeing something so ugly you just can not get it out of your mind. There is something about the receiver that is a conflict about what you see and what you hear.

As I have always said "forget the receiver and that stuff you hear about the strongest receiver in the world, give me the cases"

Yes, I found the old forum disturbing, I left, many others left. You did not care enough about the old forum to get involved. Then the archives, all gone, except, I made drafts.

F. Guffey

[Parashooter]

. . . Better to just ignore him, than try and make sense with his rants.
Matt

By not following your own advice to ignore him you've managed to set him off again! Listen, it's clear FG has some cognitive issues - but he also has considerable experience and sometimes hides useful information among the tangles of his imagination. If you can get past the masses of chaff, there's occasionally a grain of wisdom in there.