Question for experienced reloader.

[nf1e]

I have been reloading for 50 plus years and have come upon something that I am looking for and answer to.
For years now folks have been talking about how much more SB dies work the brass than FL.

I have a few different RCBS dies in the workshop. While cleaning them up today I decided to take a little more careful look at them and what I found raised the question.

1. FL 70 my oldest .308 die measures .458 ID
2. FL Y next oldest .308 die measures .461 ID
3. SB FL 91 current use .308 die measures .465 ID

Brass sized in #3 will not drop into either 1 or 2
Brass sized in either 1 or 2 will easily drop into die 3

Now with my tiny amount of grey matter to rely upon, this makes me think that the SB FL die that I use daily works the brass less than the old FL.

Just for the sake of conversation, what are the thoughts of other reloaders? Please no wives tales or internet " I read it so it must be true".

Thanks
Semper Fi
Art

[fguffey]

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/308%20Winchester.pdf

50 Years, when someone tells me how many years they have been reloading I know there is not much I can help them with. I have forming dies, neck sizing dies, BAR dies, small base dies and modified case body/shoulder dies, with Group A, B, C etc. dies.

I am not sure how you can

1. FL 70 my oldest .308 die measures .458 ID
2. FL Y next oldest .308 die measures .461 ID
3. SB FL 91 current use .308 die measures .465 ID

Brass sized in #3 will not drop into either 1 or 2
Brass sized in either 1 or 2 will easily drop into die 3

drop a case into a sizer die after the neck has been expanded. I have and make chamber gages, I have Wilson casa gages, and the most important gage, the chamber in the rifle. When measuring the diameter of the case head and the ability of the die to return the case to minimum length/full length I start with the shell holder, the shell holder deck height is .125" meaning the case head does not get sized.

Long before the Internet there was a glossary of terms in the back of the Speers reloading manual, no one read the book, had they took the time they would have found the definition of a small base die was a good fitting full length sizing die. When I compare full length sizer die with other full length sizer dies I use a case. I measure the diameter of the case head first, then I drop the case into the die case head first. I have dies that will not allow the case head fit into the opening of the die, I also have dies that will allow the same case head to drop into the die .200". I have measured the opening of small base dies and compared them with standard die openings, I am told there is as much as .002" difference. When sizing 300 Win Mag cases for a Model 70 Winchester I found there was no measurable difference in the dimensions of the case from the belt forward. I decided I had a tight full length sizing die and a loose small base die.

On another forum a similar question was asked, the question had to do with a reloader that could not size his 30/06 cases with one set of dies but could with another. I explained to him I had a set if dies like that. His older set was RCBS FL 30/06 77 dies. The 77 set qualifies as a small base die. I do not have a 30/06 case that will fit head first. Then there is the chamber that allows cases to expand when fired and case head expansion when fired with heavy loads.

There comes a time when it is difficult to stuff a case into a die. Then there are all those machine gun fired cases that gets the best of almost everyone.

F. Guffey

[nf1e]

Thank F. Guffey
What I am seeing is a case sized in the SB FL die will drop almost all the may back in after sizing. When I try that case in my older dies, it will go all but 1" in one and all but 3/4" in the other. My thought is that all the talk about the SB dies working the brass more and making the case smaller than the FL is not correct, at least with the dies I have. The SB actually leaves brass a larger size than the others. No big deal, but it raised the question for me today and I thought it might make an interesting topic for discussion.

[nf1e]

My mystery has been solved.
The SB FL die that measures .465 is not right.
Looking through the shop and the box the die was in I found a note from a person that borrowed that set. He said that the die was very dirty and sticking so he did me a favor and " polished" the interior of the die on his drill press with crocus cloth. A new SB X die that I am using measures right in line with the old dies.
Thank goodness I only loaded 50 rnds of a load I was testing with that darn die. They did not want to chamber worth a darn. Shot 5 rnds and took them back inside and pulled bullets emptied powder and ran them through the Xdie with the decapper removed. All is well.

[joem]

"Then there are all those machine gun fired cases that gets the best of almost everyone".

I can relate to that as I bought a lot of mil surplus cases in the past. Most times I can partially size them (about 1/2 way) then relube and try it again. Most times it works but some times it's a stuck case.

[jimb]

I would request that the die polisher replace that SB die! If he's so stupid as to polish it with crocus cloth and destroy it, he should replace it and never be lent anything again!

[Matt Anthony]

I would request that the die polisher replace that SB die! If he's so stupid as to polish it with crocus cloth and destroy it, he should replace it and never be lent anything again!

Yes, he should replace it. The rule of thumb, never, and I mean never, lend out any tools or machines to anyone. Cheap human beings make me sick and cause more trouble in the long run for themselves and others! They never buy, they borrow and 99% of the time something happens to the item you lent them. When someone asks me if they can borrow something, I laugh in their face and tell them no, go buy it like I did.........
Matt

[joem]

"When someone asks me if they can borrow something, I laugh in their face and tell them no, go buy it like I did........".

Smart move on your part. The only thing I lend out is something that can't be broken or is about worn out.

[jimb]

Of all my friends and neighbors, there are only two that I would loan any tools to. And I'm the only person that they will lend any tools to. We take care of those tools as though they were our own. I lent one of them an old, dull, sightly rusted auger amd it came back properly sharpened and without any rust. After that, he was allowed to borrow almost any of my tools. He earned the right.