Small Based Dies

[M1CHAZZ]

Going to start reloading all the LC/HXP 30-06 brass I have. Going to be shot through my 1903a3/ Garand in matches.
was told maybe to use small based dies. Have regular full length dies. Was told small based are better for feeding? Also told to watch the length&
trim the cases. How far can I let these cases go before I trim? Picked up a Gracey trimmer years ago set up for .223; Can it be easily converted to 30-06? Never did receive instructions with it. Anyone have experience with one? Also told to reduce powder by 1 gr. because of This Mil. brass???

Thanx
Chuck

[joem]

I use a Dillon power trimmer and I trim my .30-06 cases to min data dims. I have only used FL sizing dies so I can't comment on sm based dies.

[PhillipM]

I have never used small based dies and have never had a problem.

I now use RCBS X dies which only require one trimming, which is good, because I hate trimming.

[BudT]

I reload for my M1 and have always used a standard FL die and without any feeding problems. If your convinced that you need to use a small base then by all means use it.

[psteinmayer]

I've been reloading M2 Ball brass (LC, HXP, PS, IK, etc.) for many years with standard Lee 30-06 dies and never experienced a problem. I also use the Lee case length trimmer with great success.

One good piece of advice I can give you is to get a set of RCBS Swaging dies. The LC brass has crimped primers, and the HXP has staked primers. You must swage these crimps or you can't properly seat new primers without damaging the primer cup. Some loaders will use a reamer to remove the crimps, but you must be very careful doing this or you'll remove too much metal and the integrity of the primer cup could be compromised. The RCBS swaging die is used in your press like any other die, and takes all of the guess work out of removing the crimps!

[Timberwolf]

SB dies in an autoloader is a good idea for guaranteed feeding. I use SM dies for my bolt guns too.

[swede49]

IMHO. Seems like you would not need to small base or full length resize rounds fired in your O3A3, but only neck size if those cases are to be reloaded for firing again only in that rifle. For the Garand resizing to factory specs is probably best for feeding reliability, and I have used RCBS FL for years without a glitch.

Small base resizing seemed to be a necessity for my S&W M&P 15 and my 300 Savage Remington Model 81.

As far as trimming goes, if I do it I go to min trim length, but if a case is still shorter than max length I do not trim. Use LE Wilson Case trimmer, simple and consistent/accurate.

[fguffey]

Going to start reloading all the LC/HXP 30-06 brass I have. Going to be shot through my 1903a3/ Garand in matches.


Thanx
Chuck

You are going to shoot your reloading ammo in a 1903A3 or you are going to shoot your reloaded ammo in a Garand? Then when it comes to the Garand it had three different chambers. In the beginning 30/06 ammo was designed to be shot in everything with a 30/06 chamber. It was understood from the beginning the Garand was a semi autoloader; meaning the 30/06 Garand chamber was larger in diameter at the base by as little as .000025", most claim the old guys could not hold tolerances that close.

I have small base dies, I have BAR dies for Browning Automatic Rifles, I do not use them but I have them just in case. And then there was the 'match chamber'. I would measure the diameter of the chamber first and then I would measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face before starting.

F. Guffey

[NuJudge]

I have found a Small Base die necessary for HXP brass in a aftermarket NM conditioned Garand. If I did not use a Small Base die, I did not get free chambering, and risked out-of-battery explosion. I have never found a Small Base die necessary for any other .30-'06 brass.

Your reloading manual will tell you how long your brass can get before you need trimming. Virtually always, .30-'06 brass needs trimming after the first firing, as it will be well over maximum. You mention you have a Gracey trimmer, and ask if it is convertible to caliber .30, and I believe the answer is "yes", and while you are converting calibers think about buying a cutter for it from Giraud, such that it will not just trim to length, but also chamfer inside & outside at the same time.

I have the RCBS X-Die for several calibers, but have not used them yet. The responses I have seen in discussions are that they do eliminate every trimming after the first one.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I full length size my brass, it's all HXP 68 and LC 68. I shoot it in two different 1903s and an M1. I've got about 800 rounds of brass and process it all at once by headstamp. I"ve never used small based dies and don't have any feeding issues. All of these rifles have military chambers, no tight match chambers. Since you already have a FL size die, why don't you load up a bunch, go to the range and see what happens? You can always buy small base dies if you need to. To get rid of the military primer crimp, I used an RCBS swaging tool for the LC brass. For the HXP, I used a case mouth reamer to remove the three little stake marks, very easy and seating primers was like new brass. For trimming, I just got a Giraud tri way trimmer: http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm You chuck the trimmer in your electric drill, insert each case mouth into the tool and hold it there until the bearing stops moving. It not only trims, but also chamfers and deburrs. I think it took me an hour to hour and a half to trim 800 cases.

As for loads and military brass, like any other load, start low and work up. For my bolt guns, I've been using Sierra 125gr Matchkings with light loads at around 2300fps. Recoil is way down and those flat based bullets are very accurate at 100 or 200 yards. They don't move you around in rapid fire either. For your Garand, I'd stick to proven Garand loads, they don't like loads lighter or heavier.

[kcw]

If your full length resized & trimmed brass poses no feeding problems I can see no advantage in going to a small base die. On the other hand, going to a small base die under such circumstances obviously amounts to an unnecessary "working" of the brass, which may result in a shortened lifespan of the cases. My preference to work the brass as little as possible and yet obtain flawless function. If neck sizing will accomplish that end..DO IT, If partial sizing will accomplish that...DO It, If full length sizing is required...DO IT; and finally, if all else has failed, use a small base die, which I've never had to do.

[DaveL]

I have 3 sets of small base dies in 5.56, 308 and '06. I've had them for years and never needed them. Not once. And I've loaded literally thousands of rounds of those 3 cals. for 10s of different rifles.

[Sunray]

OP is nearly a year old.
SB dies for an M1 Rifle is totally unnecessary though. Guarantees nothing whatsoever. SB's are not required for any semi either. Unless they are. As daft as that sounds. Some AR's need 'em, but most semi's do not.

[bigedp51]

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and no two chambers and dies are exactly the same. I have a Lee full length .223 die that will reduce the case diameter more than my RCBS small base die does. A resized case should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired size to give reliable extraction in a semi-auto. This is from Glen Zediker's book "Handloading for Competition Making the Target Bigger".

That being said most military chambers are .002 larger in diameter than a standard SAAMI chamber. Meaning a standard full length die should work most of the time "but" some rifles may need a small base die. My AR series .223/5.56 RCBS small base die only make the sized cases .0005 smaller in diameter at the base but size further down the case than my standard RCBS .223 die. When I buy once fired brass they are all sized with a small base die the first time and then a standard die is used.

On Target Product Review: RCBS AR Series Die Set (for 308)

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/on-target-product-review-rcbs-ar-series-die-set-for-308/123

Bottom line, never say never and to be on the safe side having both type dies never hurts anything. Especially if you have brass fired in another firearm.

[fguffey]

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and no two chambers and dies are exactly the same.

. My AR series .223/5.56 RCBS small base die only make the sized cases .0005 smaller in diameter at the base but size further down the case than my standard RCBS .223 die. When I buy once fired brass they are all sized with a small base die the first time and then a standard die is used.
.

It would seem reloaders that live in a plus and minus world would learn to measure the difference.


I assume you are talking about the base of the case; if the deck height of the shell holder is .125” the base of the case can not be sized smaller in diameter because the shell holder limits the amount of the case than can be reduce in diameter. That leaves the die; the base of the die has a smaller opening so when we are talking about small base dies we are talking about a die with a small diameter base.

The RCBS dies in the black box are the equivalent of dies that have had the base ground off. A reloader could accomplish the same results if they ground the top of the shell holder to lower the deck height.

Rather than ground the die and or shell holder I use a feeler gage to raise the case head off the deck of the shell holder. I form cases for short chamber by as much as .012”; in the process I reduce the diameter of the case above the extractor and the distance between the shoulder of the case and case head.

F. Guffey